Gnasher
It was you who said the collar used STATIC shock
IF that was the case then the collar would be building up charge and then jumping the gap between the contacts and the dogs skin
If the resistance was greater - say by a thick coat - then the charge would have to build up even more before it jumped the gap - so more static charge

But - you now say it has to have actual contact with the skin
This means it is NOT static electricity, the area of skin between the electrodes compleates the circit and causes a FLOW of electricity from the battery

so the thickness of the coat means nothing - however the condition of the skin means EVERYTHING and any tiny cuts in the skin will significantly increase the likelyhood of any damage to the skin from the same level of zap

I am sorry ignorance is not a defence here
YOU spouted a load of tosh about the collar as if it was facts
then cried about your condition when you were proved wrong

Seems you are unable to get a good explination about fluffy voltage and killing current, but you are very quickly able to say my other explination is tosh
interesting that

IF you are going to use electricity on your dog you should at least research and understand it first

and BTW the pager is not just like a tug on a lead - it is like a horses head on the doorstep, it is a pshcological threat - do as I say else the big scary zap happens

Story has changed again - before you were sure that Ben knew it came from the collar.

Gnasher, i'm sorry, but i still fail to see your logic! If you are still having to use the collar, even on a vibrate, then Ben has absolutely no idea why its happening, and certainly has no understanding of recall my dogs recall to me as soon as i call them, no matter what they are doing, because being with me is a good place to be, its rewarding and fun............not because they are scared of what might come next if they dont. Oh, and i wouldn't know about it being the same as a lead tug, as i don't do that to my dogs either

Gnasher I grew up with a child with ADHD, I saw exactly what it was like, I know exactly what it is like, so don't assume I , or others don't know.Through him him, I know lots of other people with ADHD I would never refer to him or them as a head banger, you disgust me quite frankly.

I felt sorry for your dogs, you show now empathy for them, and now I feel sorry for your daughter too.

Gnasher: " Routinely now, Ben stays fairly close, moseying about as they do. OCCASIONALLY now, when he goes to say hello to another dog, or whatever, when he is whistled he doesn't respond, and therefore has to have a rumble."

So hes now NOT running, i thought you wanted him to run around, if hes staying close you could just have him on a long lead.
Or "whatever" ?what to attack it?Obvisley has a history of, & if its not to say hello , what else is there?????
Then you whistle & dosent recall, Worked absolutley Sh*t then hasent it

From the product safety guide of the Dogtra ecollar:

"Dogtra e-collars are intended for the sole purpose of behavior modification of dogs. They are not intended for human use or use on other animals. Dogtra Company does not assume any liability for improper use of the Dogtra e-collar".

"Dogtra does not recommend using the e-collar to correct dogs that are aggressive towards other dogs or people. In many such cases the dog will associate the stimulation with the other dog or individual and become even more aggressive. Dog aggression is best treated by a dog training specialist".

"Dogtra's industry-leading technology filtering system ensures minimal interference with other electronic devices (cellular phones, security systems, etc.). Our digital microprocessor offers thousands of unique codes to eliminate frequency match-up with other Dogtra e-collars."

OK, so don't use on humans - why, if they are safe as they are made out to be?

Don't use with aggressive dogs because of the association risks - no mention that the very same association can be made by the non-aggressive dog and actually lead to aggression.

MINIMAL INTERFERENCE!! Note, it doesn't say NO interference, just minimal. In other words, the device can be affected by other devices. Gnasher, make sure hubby leaves his mobile at home when taking Ben out with the damned collar on.

Another note: this is not imotive argument from an opponent of the collars, but taken directly from the site of one of the leading collar manufactuers. Alarm bells anyone??

Yes - but the manufactures obviously know less that her OH.

def less than the genius O/H

dont know your dogs
not experienced enough to comment.
Rather than trying to win the argument which is difficult as people tend to be firmly entrenched on this issue, i would like to see a daily summary of what things are working on the day with normal methods and which don,t and need a vibrate.
what further methods are you using to reinforce good actions and wean from the collar or do you see yourself always needing the collar as a back up

I thought Gnashers OH was a zoologist, or have I got that confused with someone else?

If I'm right, then that doesn't necessarily mean he has a great understanding of electricity.

As someone I know said to me quite recently; 'it'd do my credibility no good, if I pretended to know something I didn't.' Ftr, the guy who said that is a university professor over in California, a paleontologist and happens to be an anatomical consultant for animation studios such as Pixar.

He's an intelligent man, does that mean he understands the workings of an ecollar...no. Though he may very well do, I don't know, perhaps I should ask him.

Not having a go Gnasher, just thinking outloud.