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Krusewalker
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27-05-2009, 07:28 PM
Originally Posted by Borderdawn View Post
Sorry I didnt see it that way, I thought you were generalising about what people do here with their Cats.

Indoor Cats are not unusual in the UK, in fact its massively "up" now, and almost all breeders and exhibitors of Cat will not allow them to roam.


This sort of generalisation I meant, I expect that crating dogs 9-5 is not "normal" in the US but does happen, as I know it does here too.
Hi Dawn,

I was trying to demonstrate what is considered more 'socially accepted' between the 2 cultures.

As in some people keep cats indoors for personal preference over here, but quite a few other people keep them indoors due to medical or behaviour issues.
As on the whole, over here, it's the norm that most cats are kept outside, as the more popular opinion with 'cat people' (and most people, i think) is that cats should be able to express their roaming instincts.
For example, the majority of rescues wont home cats as indoor cats unless they need to be, due to FIV etc, and the top cat behaviourists like Francesca Riccomini and Vicky Halls also take this view.
But i do respect that other cat people like to keep them indoors due to community reasons.

And in the same vein, in America, whilst many people keep dogs as pets as we do, you can go on an American dog forum, where it is considered perfectly socially acceptable to get a dog if you work all day and crate it 9-5.
Something that would be considered outrageous and even cruel over here.
Ive read a few threads on British forums about British members of American forums getting shot down for critising this type if crating, with the majority of people showing offence and stating their right to have a dog as the most important issue.
The reverse would occur on a thread on here.

In my opinion, i feel dogs and cats need to fit into our lifestyle, but after allowing for their natural instincts.
To that end, i would disagree with 9-5 dog crating, debarking, cat declawing and keeping cats indoors for non medical and behaviour reasons, as I feel they are all wrong for the same reason:
Human desire to have a pet overriding animals needs.

But i wouldnt shout "cruel", as i need to consider 'cultural components'.
So if I shouted "cruel" at myboxer, id have to shout cruel at yourself as well, as i feel you are both wishing to keep cats against their natures for not valid reasons.

that isn't said in an attacking way.
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Borderdawn
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27-05-2009, 07:46 PM
Originally Posted by Krusewalker View Post
Hi Dawn,

I was trying to demonstrate what is considered more 'socially accepted' between the 2 cultures.

As in some people keep cats indoors for personal preference over here, but quite a few other people keep them indoors due to medical or behaviour issues.
As on the whole, over here, it's the norm that most cats are kept outside, as the more popular opinion with 'cat people' (and most people, i think) is that cats should be able to express their roaming instincts.
For example, the majority of rescues wont home cats as indoor cats unless they need to be, due to FIV etc, and the top cat behaviourists like Francesca Riccomini and Vicky Halls also take this view.
But i do respect that other cat people like to keep them indoors due to community reasons.

And in the same vein, in America, whilst many people keep dogs as pets as we do, you can go on an American dog forum, where it is considered perfectly socially acceptable to get a dog if you work all day and crate it 9-5.
Something that would be considered outrageous and even cruel over here.
Ive read a few threads on British forums about British members of American forums getting shot down for critising this type if crating, with the majority of people showing offence and stating their right to have a dog as the most important issue.
The reverse would occur on a thread on here.

In my opinion, i feel dogs and cats need to fit into our lifestyle, but after allowing for their natural instincts.
To that end, i would disagree with 9-5 dog crating, debarking, cat declawing and keeping cats indoors for non medical and behaviour reasons, as I feel they are all wrong for the same reason:
Human desire to have a pet overriding animals needs.

But i wouldnt shout "cruel", as i need to consider 'cultural components'.
So if I shouted "cruel" at myboxer, id have to shout cruel at yourself as well, as i feel you are both wishing to keep cats against their natures for not valid reasons.

that isn't said in an attacking way.
Fair comment Kruse, I understand where you are coming from.
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Borderdawn
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27-05-2009, 07:47 PM
Originally Posted by MyBostonBoy View Post
Thanks for the links. I read through them and I understand your point of view. It is a serious surgery, no denying that. It says that it is very painful. I believe that, don't get me wrong. But how do you explain the surgery performed when a dog or cat is spayed or neutered? Doesn't that cause pain? I know that kind of surgery is very, very important. But both surgeries have a long recovery period. I had my baby naturally, but I'm sure any woman who has given birth by c-section would agree that the recovery is very painful. As is a spay surgery. I am 100% pro spay/neutering, but I'm just comparing. What do you think?
The difference in spaying is that is saves dogs lives, I dont agree with castration for none medical reasons. Recovery may cause discomfort, but ultimately it can save a dog from dying, the same cannot be said about declawing, it is certainly not beneficial in ANY way to the Cat.
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Krusewalker
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27-05-2009, 07:48 PM
.....cheers
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MyBostonBoy
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27-05-2009, 09:27 PM
Hmm, de-toothing... Good idea!
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muttzrule
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28-05-2009, 10:02 PM
Hm. Am I the only one who actually gave any advise on the OP's question? I am against declawing myself but I don't see the need to turn a perfectly acceptable question into a flame session.

Krusewalker. I don't know where you get your information, but we do not MAKE our cats stay inside for our own sakes, its for their benefit. We have traffic, and coyotes and poison, and snakes, and roaming dogs and evil people that it is my JOB as a pet owner to protect my cats from! All three of my cats are rescues and all three of them came to me injured from living outside. One is missing a leg, one is permanently gimp due to his pelvis being shattered after being run over by a car, and the other had his hip broken by a cruel kid who was tormenting him. Preventing this kind of harm is why I keep my cats inside. I have three large climbing scratching trees in my house for them, window seats, a screened porch, and various scratchers for them to use and I play with them interactive hunting games every day. They are not deprived. They are perfectly happy. They are not declawed. I am against declawing, debarking, docking and cropping. I am an American. I['m not the only one who feels this way. Are you shocked to hear this? There are people in the UK who are cruel to their pets and practice pet care behaviors that are in their own best interest and not the pets, but you don't see me generalizing all Europeans into one group. THere are good and bad pet owners in EVERY culture. Stop tarring us all with the same brush.

Now I remember why I left Dogsey a year ago.
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Meg
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28-05-2009, 10:38 PM
Hi Tara congratulations on the baby
You say ..
He is anywhere from 10 months to 2 years old
you may get some indication of age from his teeth, if he is only 10 months old they will be newly cut and should be very clean and white.

It is import to make sure your cat can escape to a safe place, one thing you can do is put up a dog gate maybe at the foot of the stairs or in the doorway of a room so your cat has somewhere to go.

Another thing to try if your cat is not too scared or the dog to excited is to sit with the cat on your knee and a little bowl of chicken pieces (or some other high value treats ) next to you , throw pieces of chicken to your dog as he approaches you, this should detract from the cat and help your little dog to associate it with good things. Give you dog lots of praise if he ignores the cat.

As long as the cat can escape from the dog hopefully they should get used to each other in time.
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Krusewalker
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29-05-2009, 05:41 AM
Originally Posted by muttzrule View Post

Krusewalker. I don't know where you get your information, but we do not MAKE our cats stay inside for our own sakes, its for their benefit. We have traffic, and coyotes and poison, and snakes, and roaming dogs and evil people that it is my JOB as a pet owner to protect my cats from! All three of my cats are rescues and all three of them came to me injured from living outside. One is missing a leg, one is permanently gimp due to his pelvis being shattered after being run over by a car, and the other had his hip broken by a cruel kid who was tormenting him. Preventing this kind of harm is why I keep my cats inside.

People that keep cats indoors in the uk also state safety issues such as traffic. its an ethical question, possible risk of injury V cat be happier living a natural roaming life.
I've thought about this long and hard.
I opt for the latter, although we dont have to consider snakes and coyotes, so i would think, in america, it may depend 'where' you live?

I have three large climbing scratching trees in my house for them, window seats, a screened porch, and various scratchers for them to use and I play with them interactive hunting games every day. They are not deprived. They are perfectly happy.

brilliant

they are not declawed. I am against declawing, debarking, docking and cropping. I am an American. I['m not the only one who feels this way. Are you shocked to hear this?

No, obviously not, as I already explained that its more widely accepted in America to agree with keeping cats indoors

There are people in the UK who are cruel to their pets and practice pet care behaviors that are in their own best interest and not the pets,

I never said there weren't - i deal with the consequences for a living

but you don't see me generalizing all Europeans into one group. THere are good and bad pet owners in EVERY culture. Stop tarring us all with the same brush.

Now I remember why I left Dogsey a year ago
.
You dont appear to have understood my post properly, as i just wrote (in reply to dawn), that you shouldn't 'flame people' (as you put it), especially by describing them as 'cruel', as you have to consider different social/cultural opinions. I think you are confusing me as having a different opinion to you as flaming you.
My opinion is genuine and considered, and i make no apologies for it
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muttzrule
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29-05-2009, 07:12 AM
I didn't think you were flaming me, the OP was being flamed for declawing his cat....i.e. the entire thread turned into a discussion about how awful that was and only a few people actually responded to the question which was completley unrelated. I think thats flaming. You can have all the opinions you want, but you aren't living where I live, you dont work in Emergency veterinary medicine and see all the horrors I see every day. I'll do what it takes to protect my cats. They don't miss the outdoors, and I'm assured they won't die a horrible death.
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Jackie
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29-05-2009, 07:50 AM
Originally Posted by muttzrule View Post
I didn't think you were flaming me, the OP was being flamed for declawing his cat....i.e. the entire thread turned into a discussion about how awful that was and only a few people actually responded to the question which was completley unrelated. I think thats flaming. You can have all the opinions you want, but you aren't living where I live, you dont work in Emergency veterinary medicine and see all the horrors I see every day. I'll do what it takes to protect my cats. They don't miss the outdoors, and I'm assured they won't die a horrible death.
Well as one who did the flaming as you call it..

My opinions on declawing stand, for me the practice is nothing but mutilation and going by your post, is completey unnecessary...as like you , many of your country men will find the practice unacceptable.

Yes there are cultural differences here, , as there are all over the world, that does not mean we have to justify and expect them.

I dont agree with skinning cats /dogs alive in China, and if someone who practiced this came onto the forum, I would make my feeling known...just as on this post.
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