Thanks SB, I'm going to look into it. I don't know why people would think it's a bad thing to do, especially when so many people own guarding breeds. Not if people are being responsible.

Azz, I find it a little strange that you don't seem to see PP training in a positive light, given ths last breed you owned and your testament to his instincts (i mean that in the nicest possible way)

I own a breed that was originally bred to protect their handler. I have seen that trait "kick in" and was thankful for it, I'm also thankful that he is friendly, sociable, tolerant....so I suppose I only see responsible PP training as an improvement. Surely knowing where the off switch is can only be a good thing?

I have never understood not being allowed to have a gun or a knife.There are murders everywhere.I used to work in a prison-if someone wants to hurt you they can-if they want to kill you they can.
I am an old woman-I live in the country by myself-but this old woman has grit.I don't at this time own a gun but have my 4 non PP trained german shepherds.I don't need them.Someone carrying a business's bank perhaps-someone living in a gang neighborhood perhaps-famous people perhaps.
The point is anything CAN be a weapon-a dog or a stick-or a gun it is on the person wielding the weapon that is to blame.You can't make rules and laws and prevent death or injury.You raise kinder more giving-caring people.The world is an angry place and we are all so damn "right"We will not be totally safe unless we live in a cubicle with food that comes through a wall and there is no human contact whatever.Life is a chance. You can chose to live afraid or be grateful for and throughly appreciate everyday you have and the people in it.
I am sad for what we are becoming.I will take my chances-maybe I will be murdered but I will have lived til I don't.I want NO law or rule to PROTECT me-My God and I will do that thank you.

..me too and i agree

Btw when you see pure instinct and what I suppose you could calk a drive that you havent really had to see at a certain level kick into force, it's scary! I think having a trial run can't be a bad thing

Btw please don't get the wrong idea, my dog is the softest you could met but I have had the reminder on the past, that he is a Dobe under all that and that theres a part of him deep down that will kick in...if I'm under threat. Not something you want to rely on but still...

Again, I'd be much more worried by an untrained dog with a poor temperament who was aggressive than a stable dog who had been highly trained to bite on command.

I've never seen a prong collar used on any gundog at any gundog training session or event? are prong collars even allowed on dogs competing at Field Trials?

a dog that bites without command is the one to worry most about.....

But how many people honestly need a dog to be able to bite on command? not for dog sports but for the real deal? given that the average person isn't generally put in safety compromising positions every day unlike police dog handlers.

Realistically, how many of the small minority who own personal protection dogs (NOT dogs who do man work for sport!) will ever use them in a real situation?

Ah yes, I did indeed own a dog with natural guarding instincts, and on a few occasions I witnessed these instincts for myself. Like many dogs, the instincts usually come into play in territory and I suppose luckily for me Rocky's natural instinct wasn't to bite, but to 'pin' or stop intruders (without contact - just body language and growls etc) until I got there. I doubt he would have bit anyone unless he was getting attacked or saw that I was.

But a natural, territorial instinct is different to have been trained to bite on command - don't you think? As I said I am ambivalent, but I was just a bit shocked at how many people are doing it (and many don't come across as the responsible type - which is what I found worrying).

I'll have a read of that link later MM - thanks!

When the dogs are under the judge they are no allowed to wear a collar are they?
There are some awful gundog people out there but things are slowly improving thankfully.

As for the PP thing, I don't think it should be banned but I personally don't see the appeal. I would not
Like to have the responsibility of a PP trained dog. I know one of our pups had a huge guarding instinct, particularly around my son, I would not have liked to have encouraged that at all. I knew it was there and I certainly
felt safe when he was around, but I tried to focus him elsewhere and dilute the bond/tendency and let him know that it was MY job, not his. Had I encouraged the guarding part of him I am not sure how many people would have been allowed to go anywhere near my son again!!!! Again a big soft sook of a dog.

Thought I should add the pup was 48kg by the time he left us!!!!

Unfortunatley this thread went South at some point!

However, as it's now back on track (I think!) I would add this.

Although I have never done any form of PP work, I have spoken to quite a few who do PD in WT and Schutzhund. My clear impression is that it's all about excellent temprament and control. There has been sometimes a mention of the occassional unsavoury character coming along for training who is always turned away.

This impression would seem to go against the grain of this thread which seems to be that there is a higher risk if you have a dog trained in such a way. Surely because its about excellent temprament and control the opposite is true?

Any dog can have a bad moment, but should we stop our dogs chasing and biting balls in case they chase and bit something that is live? We do this to channel prey drive, but there is always a small element of risk isn't there? That's one of the reasons we all work so hard on temprament and behaviour, and I guess the point is that manwork is the pinnacle of this?

As I understand it, you won't get through competition in WT or Schutzhund if you can't call your dog off? Might be wrong as I've never competed?

Not too sure with PP itself, but I would hope that it has similar ethos?