can someone tell me why the 2nd in Limit dog is called back for best dog or bitch

Hi all, I wondered if someone could explain the reason for calling the dog placed 2nd in limit back to the ring when best dog or bitch is being judged, I have seen it happen a couple of times and just dont understand it?

Hi Dougie
It isn't about the Limit Class. What happens is all unbeaten dogs are called into the ring. The judge picks the best dog or dog cc from this line up. This can be out of any class from minor puppy up to Open /Veteran. Whereever the best dog/CC award goes, most of the time the dog that came second in that class is called in, as the only dog that has beaten it is the 1st placed dog in this class. The judge then has the choice of giving this dog the RCC or Reserve best dog or giving it to one of the other unbeaten dogs. I think you've just seen this happen in limit but it applies to any of the classes. Hope this makes sense.

yup I have seen it in other classes, but still a bit confused, why dont they call all the dogs that were second in there class in? sorry for being so dumb,,,,

They call back the dog that came second to whoever is chosen as best dog so that they can pick reserve best dog ... sometimes reserve best dog is the one who came 2nd in the class that the best dog won ....

So they then pick from all the next best dogs - the winners in most of the classes plus the second in the class that BD was from ....

Okay let's keep it simple.

Five classes.

Minor Puppy
Puppy
Junior
Post Grad
open

In the line up there are five dogs all class winners and unbeaten dogs.

The judge picks the open dog winner as best dog. This dog therefore has now beaten, all of the other class winners.
The second in open is called in as this dog along with all the other unbeaten class winners has ONLY been beaten by the BEST DOG. So the second in open has the right to challenge for reserve best dog along with all the other class winners.
It's exactly the same as the principle at an open show. Best of breed is declared, then the second in the class is called in to challenge for reserve best of breed.
The judge does not have to call in the 2nd in the class and he does not have to give the Reserve Best Dog to this dog although it does tend to happen this way.
Hope that makes sense.

Just to make it more confusing, the second dog has to be ONLY unbeaten in one class. For example, say you came second to me in the Open class, but you also came second to Muddiwarx in the postgrad class. Then Muddiwarx gets best dog. You won't be called in because you have been beaten by two dogs, Muddiwarx and mine, so in this instance you can't challenge for Reserve Best dog.

Ok when the best dog or bitch is chosen, they call the dog who came second in the same class as the best dog or bitch, as although it was beaten by the dog who is now best dog, it STILL may be better than all of the other dogs who won their classes, but the judge doesn't know if it is (or not) if it didn't compete against these other dogs. It only happens if the dog coming second was beaten ONLY by the dog or bitch who has been awarded best dog/bitch.

The reason ALL the second placings are not called back is because the dogs who beat them in their classes were not awarded best dog/bitch or whatever, so in theory, if they came second to a dog that didn't get placed, they are not as good and are not put forward...

Ok that took me ages to try and explain and I think i've probably just confused you more.

Well I am confussed,(not be your post) and I know what you mean:smt017 :smt017 its a difffercult one to explain. and to confuss the matter, it is down to the judge to invite you back sometimes they dont

ah so you may be called back or you may not? on the scale of ten how often would the dog second to the cc winner be called back?

How long is a piece of string??????

I have seen as many calle dback in as not, I have stood outside a ring with a friend waiting to be invited back in, and it has not happened, also seen the steward invite someone back in, and they have already gone home!!

I'd say more often than not but it depends on the judge and the circumstances. I usually do call them back in CC competition because the standard is usually high enough for second in limit, post grad... etc to be of champion standard but if it's obvious from memory that the 2nd placed dog doesn't warrant the challenge, then no point in wasting time.

Some continental judges routinely never call back 2nd placed dogs and in numerically small breeds you can get the odd situation where an immature 1st prize winner from a lower class takes res Best Dog/Bitch over a much better 2nd placed mature dog from Limit/open.