couldn't agree more. Some dogs (like some children) take longer to reach ut the extra effort involved always reaps dividends in the end. I would rather a dog behaved because it wants to than because I made it...

Glad I'm not nuts then....my family look at me because I use 'LOW GROWLS' at Bruce when he needs it, he always comes running back and flops down all wiggley and 'Oh! sorry Mom' attitude, the Foster kids think I'm mad.....but it works doesn't Hun...as you say only what Mom would do. Gets a result everytime

This is totally off topic so sorry...but I always do the puppy whining thing when young pups nip and playbite with me as it works everytime. I cry like a young pup would...(my neighbours know I'm mad)...
I had to stop it with Cosmo as from the word go he would howl, whole bottom lip thing going and everything bless him! I think he must have been realy upset at his litter mates playfighting! He's a sensitive soul my boy is!!! It's like he was crying with me! Bless his little cotton socks!

Shows though that there are other ways of training.....nicely.

I think that the TZBCs do what I tell them (most of the time, anyway ) because they are fond of me, and not because they fear not to. If they decide to misbehave, then the command is repeated, with increasing forcefulness until the desired result is obtained. Instructions spoken in a "growly" voice tend to be followed faster, too.

Snorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrri!

yes there are all manner of ways to train a dog
and I really love the fact that because I am not using shock collers or hitting the dog I actually have to think about my training and adapt it to my dog

In a new situation he looks to me to see if its something to play with or if he has to walk nice - if I say 'on you go' he is off like a shot to investigate
no fear of the new things like if he was randomly shocked


also in the response to 'are dogs bad' (cant rem who asked that)
No I dont believe they really are
they do what is most rewarding to them - or of course what removes unplesent things
someone may think if their dog growls and snaps at other dogs when on the lead that is 'bad' and they hit the dog or shock it
but you have to find out why the dog is snapping
it may be the case that the other dog is giving off agressive signs (often the most agressive one is the one stairing at the dog - not making the noise)
or it may be that your dog is scared of dogs like that cos of something you dont even remember in the past
it has found that if it snaps then the other dog goes away - so it is rewarded

if you punnish the dog you are not fixing its fear

Also how often do you see someone whos dog wont come back and they are shouting and balling that the dog is being naughty - and they are going to slap it when it comes back
for the dog it is far more rewarding to stay away from the crazy human who calls you back and then hits you when you get back!! (dog wont realise it is being hit for the 5 min that it didnt come back)
Of if they do something and it gets a positive reaction once - like if they steal your sock when you are going to work - you either laugh or chase the dog - what fun - thats worth doing again

cant thing of a single time when a dog is actually naughty - just that the handler does not understand why it is doing what it is doing

But yes I do change my tone of voice and have words to tell the dog that the thing it is doing is not the thing I want him to do (not that he is bad just that that is not what I want at the moment - he cant speak human so he will get it wrong if I am not clear)
he has to think about what he is doing and offers a different behaiviour - then voice goes happy again

[QUOTE=Westie_N;1365177]Good god, talk about patronising. Would you like me to refer to you as Dear Master, perhaps?[QUOTE=Westie_N;1365177]

If you insist, though it's entirely unnecessary. Quite charming though.


[QUOTE=Westie_N;1365177]Do you, for one minute, think that when I request Molly to do or not to do something that I ask her in such a soft way? Like, for example, "Please, please Molly darling, don't touch the kitty cat, come and get your chewy wooey instead." I think not. [QUOTE=Westie_N;1365177]

No, I don't. But try calling off several at once with your method. It doesn't work. I've seen cats torn in half because people were too worried about getting a nip. This has NOTHING to do with training. I work with the hunt; you can't remove pack mentality.

[QUOTE=Westie_N;1365177]Wherever you hit your dogs or have hit them in the past, whether it be around the ear (I think most of us got the hint that it was a turn of phrase) or any other part of the dogs anatomy really make no difference to me. To hit a dog anywhere when it is misbehaving is totally unacceptable, IMO. [QUOTE=Westie_N;1365177]

Clearly not by various replies. I respect your opinion but I don't agree with it outside a family home environment. My only point really.

[QUOTE=Westie_N;1365177]Whether a top breeder agrees with giving a dog a "tap" as you call it, also makes no difference to me or alters my opinion, I would actually think less of that person if they felt that was acceptable, top breeder or not a top breeder.[QUOTE=Westie_N;1365177]

I was simply vindicating my point. Others clearly see my point of view and they know the terriers in question.

[QUOTE=Westie_N;1365177]I was at an agricultural show a couple of weeks ago where I met working JRTs. They were very well behaved and beautifully sociable around other people and dogs (there was a Companion Dog Show being held also). They certainly weren't in need of a slap. Perhaps you have or have had to resort to a smack because you fail to understand what makes the dogs tick, and use violence brought out by your frustration at being unable to stop misbehaviours in a more positive way. Do I have to make this part bold?[QUOTE=Westie_N;1365177]

My dogs have always been impeccably behaved around other dogs (outside breed) and humans. That is totally beside the point. Patronising again- perhaps I don't understand dogs? You clearly have a one to one intuitive relationship with yours. What makes a dog tick is a totally unique thing to the specific animal and entirely unattributable to a canine. What gives you the right to pass judgement on all based on a few JRTs and a Westie? I have pets and they bear no comparison to pack terriers. I'd never judge dogs across the board. All are different, though certain terrier breeds are notoriously difficult to control.

[QUOTE=Westie_N;1365177]You call us patronising, I would call you a Neanderthal, chauvinistic bully?[QUOTE=Westie_N;1365177]

Name calling and naive. Please point me towards the chauvinistic comments?

For a neanderthal I'd suggest my literacy is fairly plain. Perhaps you just disapprove of someone formulating a coherent argument that doesn't match your views?

Bully? For what? I have a sneaky suspicion I'm not the one name calling over the internet, smiler. Arrogant maybe, but perhaps a touch less "molly"coddled than your good self. I love my dogs, but I'm also a realist.

J.M.O.

Dearie.

xxx

(Apologies for the crap quoting skills; clearly not my strong point. Stick a collar on me and I may do better.)

Please tell me you're joking.

Even if he works, which I'd doubt, I'd suggest it's unlikely he's a pack dog?

Sounds like a lovely cross though. Any photos?

Each is unique, yes, and yet you say :

So you are in fact judging dogs by breed and not as individuals.
What you wrote conflicts throughout, its full of contradictions...


Your attitude is arrogant, patronising, rude, and totally uncalled for. Its as though you despise people who are skilled enough to work/love/interact with their dogs without needing to use brute force or intimidation... perhaps your chip on the shoulder attitude is because you are not capable of matching them ?
[ yes other people can be patronising too ]

Its not your lack of quoting skills that a shock collar is warranted for `dearie`.