You can knock them for editing if you want to but the fact remains that the individuals featured clearly do hold these beliefs and were happy to give them on camera. There aren't too many ways "puppies born without a ridge should be culled" can be interpreted are there?

The issue with the KC as far as I see it is that in allowing these dogs to win shows and produce registered offspring they are essentially sanctioning the actions of the breeders that are unscupulous and clearly do not have the animals best interests at heart. I would also say that a lot of the breed standards seem to encourage traits that clearly are not desirable from a health point of view.

Ok it may not be the KC that set the standards but they certainly endorse them and as such have a resposibilty to use their influence in a positive way.

No, not all breeders behave badly, and not all pedigree owners are pompous idiots only interested in aesthetics. But some behave very badly indeed... and some are willing to endanger animals to produce a required "look".

That is what is disgusting - and if you can't see that then maybe next time they need to make the programme a bit more sensationalist to get the damn point across.

due to breeders like the woman who was Rolo's owner churning out 26 possible litters who are carriers or have the disease !!
Whats your average litter size ? multiply that by 26 then you have a heck of a lot of dogs, and yet the cavalier club allow it to go on? or turn a blind eye.

Its just terrible. It must make you very sad Inca to see your breed like that - and that woman who is shouting about it getting basically shouted down for it !! she has 2 dogs with the same condition - thats just heartbreaking.

I know this particular dog has many working qualifications and has passed conformation tests, but why is it so overangulated to the point that it's uncomfortable/wobbling at a stand and moving at a walk? I think all dogs should be fit and capable of running miles, but they should also be comfortable at a standstill. I fail to see why the exaggeration is warranted - could you enlighten me?

Well said Rips, One more for the 'wake up and small the coffee club'...can I sense a new signature for breeders on dogsey
Mary

Well said MSE2P.....I am no expert in GSDs but would like to know. I saw him at Crufts (exhibiting in next door ring), heard the roar, went to see what it was about and was um, well, astounded.
Mary

Too true.

One thing that left my gob utterly smacked is that other woman (another breeder I believe) saying it was unforgivable to enter a showring and discuss SM with the winner when she was asked to explain why she was upset to see the programme makers. So that is apparently worse than the cretinous "winner" breeding from her dog that has been diagnosed with the condition is it??!

I was totally horrified and saddened by the findings presented in the programme, what an eye opener and what a struggle for love some owners have faced.

I used to show, NOT BREED, and I was part of the show scene purely for the hope of making new friends of people that had a shared interest in the breed of dog we owned... and most of the people I know also had a great love of the breed too. There are some people that wanted to win, for some ego feeding trip, not for the dog, but for them. When my DOG seemed to stop enjoying the show, I stopped. I do miss some of the friends I made - but keep in touch at a distance, so they are still friends.

The one thing that I would say is, dog breeding must be incredibly attractive some people as an easy way to make money... I do not know of any breeder that pays tax on the puppies they sell? Some breeds being sold for several hundreds of pounds per pup, some even more.

That lady who won best in show, with a poorly dog.. how happy she was to share with the camera the win... how he attitude changed when they asked her about her dogs confirmed illness!

Hi mse2ponder,
for the last few decades the Germans have been focusing on Temperments, working qualifications and hip status, these dogs are only allowed to breed if they achieve good hips, elbows etc and trying to eradecate the problems caused by breeders in the 70/80's by focusing on the hips and only ensuring dogs are A stamp are bred from the shape has changed with the croup becoming more pronounced, what they havent done is look to the length of hock, several WG lines now have over length hock it is this that causes the unatural stance on indoor surfaces when the dog is resting on outdoor surfaces grass, kennel run areas soil etc the dogs do not splay their feet the same on the rear, so the hocks appear firmer. What you have to remember is that this was the first time he had ever walked on an indoor surface. The one I have from similar lines because he was raised indoors does not appear unsteady or uncomfortable on carpets etc.
Hope that makes sense!
The SV are re-assessing both working and showlines in Germany, so there will be changes hopefully for the better, what annoys me is that in this country anyone can put any dog to any bitch reguardless of health status, at least in other countries dogs with bad hips are not allowed to be bred from. Recently seen ones in the 90's being used from lines here in the UK. All lines of GSD whether they be English showline, WG showline, English workline, European worklines and pet lines have their genetic conditions, its not just showlines like everyone believes. The GSD was developed from a very limited gene pool, like I am sure many other breeds are.

No, I said even the best breeder in the world cannot GUARANTEE a healthy pup, they can say they have had the checks for certain known diseases but not for every single known condition that a dog can have now or in the future

I also never said that x-breeds are healthier, sure there is more genetic diversity which is a good thing but if the dogs they are being bred from are unhealthy then they stand a good chance of inheriting conditions.
I really dont see how giving an example of an unhealthy working dog is any use in this discussion at all, we all know of dogs with health problems
But out of interest (and I will have to dig out the link) there was a study in Germany on dog mortalilty done over many years and they found on average, compairing sizes, mutts tended to live 2 years longer than pedigree dogs
of course there will be really sick mutts and really healthy pedigrees and not for a moment do I condone the breeding of mutts - but I 100% believe that breeding for looks alone is also wrong and limiting the gene pool so much is hurting dogs and breeding for profit will always have unethical people who forget they are dealing with life and only think how they can get a quick buck

Well I dont think I commented whether your dogs were show bred or not, this discussion has been about show bred dogs so that what what we were talking about
But great, if you are breeding to uphold the intelegence and working ability of the collie, have a great understanding of the balance the dog needs, are choosing studs based on the working qualities which will compliment the bitches you are putting them as well as getting the health checks done well done you - I really dont understand your problem with me then because we are all fighting the same side!
so mibby you dont have to jump on my every post, or if I bug you that much just put me on ignore

Because I have breeds that are still used for their original purpose (GSD, GSP, Hound) they are all dogs fit for purpose Yes I know there is a controversy about the croup line but the vast majority of GSDs look like they could give any villain a run for his money. It seems to be dogs that have lost their role that are the most exaggerated - perhaps because they don`t need to be healthy, just to catch eye of a buyer. As Wildmoor says, in Germany GSDs have to prove their fitmess. It would be interesting to see what would happen if show dogs were required to run for half a mile or so as part of the show process. I wonder how far a peke or bulldog would get?