My orange dog (sable wsd) rolled as a default behaviour wherever she happened to be at the time she was worried about anything. She did it once between the tunnel and the A frame in a competition. She did it in HTM routines---I walked round her and pretended it was meant to happen. You could be standing talking and she would suddenly collapse onto her back and wave her legs around, disconcerting if you weren't expecting it!

Re dogs making others roll----I haven't seen it often but I have seen dogs force other dogs over, certainly it happens in fights. I have an old video of it happening once between Pippin and Merlin and no way was Pippin volunteering to roll over!

rune

rune

No dog 'rolls' another dog. One dog offers the behaviour as an appeasement gesture to the other one, pure and simple.
Becky

LOL---trust me Pippin did NOT do it because he wanted to appease Merlin---he went over fighting back. I had a wsd years ago who was similar, he would was rolled by a boxer once and carried on fighting---that is NOT submission or appeasement.

It is also very unusual!

rune

i think a dog being knocked to the floor in a fight is different to so called pinning or 'alpha rolling'

They weren't fights until the bottom dog was knocked over! What Merlin did to Pippin wasn't a fight---it was done on the run and he rolled him and stood over him. Pippin did NOT give in.

I relaly wish I could sort out the video ontoa DVD---actually finding it would be a good start!

I know it is rare but I also KNOW it can happen because I have seen it.

That doesn't mean I think it is a good idea to go around doing it to dogs myself!

rune

Alpha Rolling as defined by CM is the physical rolling of a dog onto it's back & holding it there, not one dog pulling another over(like a big cat bringing down an antelope)& then holding the other dog down. AR is done when the dogs are static.

What you describe is typical of a predator pulling down/knocking down a prey animal, not AR at all. My GSDs used to do this all the time in play, typical GSD play is of course grabbing the others neck as they run together

lol thats what i meant

Oh dear---it is useless to try and convince you.

I do know the difference in what I have seen. I have had GSD's and also other breeds who do it. It is NOT the same thing.

If you ever see it so will you.

rune

I would love to see this vid, I believe if you say you saw it then you saw it but I find it strange
but it also shows MORE how wrong CM is to do it if it didnt stop the other dog

My two DO flip each other over all the time IN PLAY, neck grabbing and dragging the other over then pouncing them, and the other one play fighting back
I have even seen Mia slide upside down under Ben - so she is in the rolled position - but its just so she can nip his paws

But none of these things are alpha rolling - it is not about correction and domonating the other dog - its part of playing

I spend literally hours every day watching dogs play---my dogs, many friends dogs and Tassles dogs. Our little paddock/garden has seen generations of various puppies throughout the 20 or so years we have been here. I have also had foster pups and dogs from the rescue here. All have played on and off and interacted with all the other dogs.

Very rarely we have had a fight, even more rarely I have seen a dog roll another who DID NOT want to be rolled. Usually it is an offered behaviour as submission or a play behaviour.

Please don't think that because you haven't seen something happen it never has happened.

rune