What kind of training can help my unpredictable dog?

Forgive the long post.
I have an 11 year old lab/chow spayed female. I've had her since she was 8 weeks old. She is very smart and well trained as far as what I have trained her to do. My problem with her is she is unpredictably aggressive. She will sometimes kill cats who come into our yard. (she has several acres on a large farm to run around on.) I've had to pay several vet bills for smaller dogs she's attacked and badly hurt. I used to take her with me everywhere and she'd stay with me very well and when told to do something would do it. She seems to be sneaky. For example I'd take her with me to different horse barns where I'd give lessons or ride horses. She'd make friends with the other dogs. We'd go 6 months without an incident then one day when she was out of sight she'd bloody the other dog/dogs. I rarely actually see her do this but know it was her. She will try to "help" with livestock and has chased horses and actually taken down a large goat. When I tell her No she usually stops eventually when it comes to the livestock but saying no has no impact when she goes after another dog. She has bitten a human when he tried to reach into the fight and get his dog from her. Again I didn't see it. Unfortunately we live in an area where there are many semi-strays and just loose dogs that wander into her underground fenced area. She usually doesn't attack something when I'm standing there it's always when I'm not there or at a pretty good distance away.
Several years ago I had her on a leash at a state park for a break from driving a long distance. A little girl asked to pet her I said sure (she'd always been fine with people but I had never really had her around children) she snapped at the girl before the girl even touched her. She will sometimes beat up one of my other dogs especially if I've shown it any special attention. I now have children and do not let them anywhere near her. When they go outside I put her up as I don't trust her. Is there something I can do to make her more reilable and dull her kill instinct?

In a word, no.

To expand, would take some considerable time however in a nutshell.

Your dog lives in an unpredictable world; her behaviour is all TOO predictable.

You cannot manage the environment, neither can she.

She has rehearsed and honed her prey drive because she has been allowed to, consciously or unconsciously.

She is what you made her, consciously or unconsciously.

At 11 years old, it's probably too late to start a training programme as 11 years of practicing that behaviour must have made it very ingrained I think you would be better to ease the pressure off her by not putting her in situations that she can't handle, and to carefully manage her environment to try and avoid letting her aggress again e.g. No touching by strangers, muzzled and on lead on walks, better fencing around your land. It sounds like she's already had far too many incidents and you really can't risk any more.

smokeybear what are some of the things I might have done wrong in a general sense? I do not want to recreate this situation in the future. I don't feel like I ever knowingly allowed this behavior. I honestly didn't think it was a problem until after the first few incidences where she would beat up another dog but did not do serious damage. What should I have done after the very first problem? Perhaps I gave her too much freedom? She knows a ton of commands and follows them. It's when I'm not around or not immediately available to stop something that she pulls this kind of behavior.

She no longer gets the underground fence. She stays in a small run that she cannot escape and is exericsed under supervision. I just feel like her quality of life is less now. I have three other dogs and none of them do this.

How much socialisation did she get between 6-14 weeks? The chow part of her personality may have had a big impact on her behaviour and she may have needed extensive socialising in her early puppy days to help counteract the breeds natural suspiciousness towards strangers and sometimes other dogs. While there are perhaps things you've done unconciously to exhaserbate the situation, I can't shake the feeling that there may be a genetic factor here. Are your other dogs ok? I presume they were raised the same way?

ETA: if you cannot allow her to roam the whole yard and are worried she is miserable in the pen, is it an option to keep her in the house? That way she is supervised and presumably happy to have the company?

No she cannot stay inside as I have a 3 year old and a 7 month old and am most concerned about what she might do to them. i don't even let them around her outside as she seems to get very jealous and I am her "person."
I got her at 8 weeks. She was dropped off at a vets office with several littermates and I picked her up at a horse show. She was my shadow ever since. My mom had a dog she played with as a puppy and she has had tons of human interaction just not with small children as I got her as I was in college and just not around kids at all. I got another dog when she was about a year and they are buddies. she has never hurt him. i literally used to take them everywhere they road in the front seat of the car. by the end of college I was having too much trouble with her and other dogs. She hurt one of my mom's dogs when I took them with me home for christmas once and that's when I stopped exposing her to so many other dogs unless she was on a leash.
The third dog I got when she was about 5 and he was a 8 month unsocialized lab who was scared of his shadow. She never picked on him either and it took about 2 years for him to fully come out of his shell around everyone but is a happy go lucky guy now. the 4th i got when she was 7 a great dane who was badly abused and neglected. she would beat him up to the point of stitches. he has so many issues of his own I'm not sure she's 100% to blame as he seems to have no "dog" sense and requires medicine 3 times a day and lots of care. the other dogs seem to just put up with him. he seems to annoy all of them but the others have never done anything about it. So she's probaby had the most "normal" set of circumstances of all of them.

Right there is only so much that one do over the ether as of course I have not seen the situation first hand so much of this is a surmise based on similar situations.

Let us begin with A dog, not necessarily yours.

Dogs are a product of their genetic background as well as their environment. So starting with genetic background, the Chow was bred as a hunting, guarding and herding animal. It aint a Labrador. Your dog is a mix; therefore it will have inherited some genetic predispositions, not necessarily in equal measure from each dog and not necessarily the best from each breed.

You say she is unpredictably aggressive, I say she is showing predictable aggressiveness; the two are not the same. Remember aggressiveness is merely a behaviour, it should not be a label.

I assume the term unpredictable is in reference to her SOMETIMES killing cats and sometimes not? Well different animals pose different threats at different times to dogs.

I do not think she is “sneaky” at all, I think the key phrase is “when told to do something she will do it”. What about when she has been given nothing particular to do?

The fact that she duffs up other dogs out of your sight demonstrates that her behaviour is contingent on your presence rather than has been modified in order for her to operate a different strategy around other dogs.

Chasing is a self reinforcing activity, it releases endorphins and makes the dog feel good and of course she is doing what she was originally designed to do (Chow) herd/guard/hunt.

If her space keeps getting invaded she will guard and I strongly suspect that part of her behaviour is stress related as her “territory” is not “fixed”

Getting bitten when breaking up a fight between two dogs has nothing to do with the price of fish, the issue here is handler education; ie do NOT put your hand where there is “dangerous moving machinery”!

Again, the decision to attack or not when you are around will depend on proximity + perceived threat level + stress level. The dog will do what works; if dog is 50 yards away and you are 100 yards away, no contest, your mix will go after the dog, reverse the equation and the opposite will be true.

These are just basic truths of dogs; they do what works.

Finally, putting a dog like this on a lead, PREVENTS the dog being able to “escape” from a perceived “threat” (in this case a child) and so she will evidence her dislike in the way that dogs do.

Basically your dog does what it does because it works. Comparison with your other dogs is invidious as they are different breeds/mixes and individuals.

Imagine that you lived in the middle of nowhere and that you were surrounded by escaped convicts who kept trying to get into your house for your food or whatever. How relaxed would you be? How would this change your approach to life? Would you be sitting with a beer in one hand watching the tv at night, or would you have searchlights, alarms and be patrolling the perimeter of your property at regular intervals with a gun in hand? How would a knock on the door feel? Would you think “Oh must be Ian/Jim/Tom coming round for a beer” or would you think “OMG, hit the deck pointing your rifle at the door”?

I think your dog may be in this sort of state of mind.

Your other dogs may be more “Whatever” dogs, this one is not. TBH she sounds like the perfect one man dog (and only dog) for someone who lives on their tod in Outer Mongolia

She is what she is, I would try and lower her stress levels as at this age the behaviour will only be more honed, and increase in likelihood due to increased intolerance that comes with advancing years.

Does this make sense?

Give her some one to one time, give her a kennel and run if need be, take her out on your own occasionally, but do not think that someone can wave a magic wand and turn your dog into a Disney dog.

And of course how bad can she be? You have had her for 11 years! Accept her for what she is, understand WHY she is like she is and how her environment and lifestyle have impacted on her genetic predisposition and consider what breeds you get in future to minimise this sort of behaviour in future.

Not sure if that helps, and I am not saying I am right, but this is my take on the situation.

Originally Posted by Moon's Mum

At 11 years old, it's probably too late to start a training programme as 11 years of practicing that behaviour must have made it very ingrained I think you would be better to ease the pressure off her by not putting her in situations that she can't handle, and to carefully manage her environment to try and avoid letting her aggress again e.g. No touching by strangers, muzzled and on lead on walks, better fencing around your land. It sounds like she's already had far too many incidents and you really can't risk any more.

I have to agree with Moons mum. I think there is very little you can do now with regards to training, as she has practised this behaviour for so long.

A muzzle would be a good start, to protect other dogs/people and herself from being PTS should she bite a person again.

I am a little concerned from your other post where you state she has bitten your great dane and the dog needed stitches but none of the other dogs have attacked him. You need to supervisor these two dogs together. I wouldn’t leave them alone together ever.

I'm sorry I cannot be of any further help, but in this situation, there’s not much that can be done to change your dogs behaviour I'm afraid.

Well you have two solutions to her unpredictable aggression & that is sadly a one way trip to the vet or permanent life in a secure kennel-the only ways to ensure she will never attack/& kill again

that makes sense smokeybear. I agree her biting a person is a moot point as he did basically stick his hand in her mouth. I guess I feel bad that my lifestyle has changed so much over her lifetime that she doesn't fit as well as she used to.

Don't worry the dane is separated from her when kenneled and put with my really laid back lab so everything can be peaceful.

I've always adopted dogs, mostly mutts without much thought to what breeds were involved. I am beginning to see there are some huge differences.