Sorry if I have missed this info as I have skim read some of the posts. Jess, was the puppy on a lead for this walk?

On the pictures the pup is offlead on the walk,and some of Jess' previous posts (last year so she may have altered her opinion on this as well...I obviously cannot speak for her), indicated that she didn't like having her dogs onlead on her long walks.

Just to make things clear, this thread was split from another thread in the 'dog walks' section. Hali quoted part of a statement in the initial post which began this thread, below is the whole statement from which Hali quoted...

I think the puppy was off the lead..

OMG, I cann't believe a 14/15 week puppy (regardless to what breed) is exercised as above slow or otherwise. The pup may not show signs now.....whether I see it or not........but it's the damage this can cause for the future. Arthritic joints happen, I agree in most breeds as they get older, but the strain on the joints when a pup is young could bring this on earlier. My BC's do 4 hours daily, split into three walks/runs, but they are adult dogs. I find someone as yourself so hard o believe at times, I am not sure if it's your young age or just the fact that you have a 'I am right' streak, but when I read your remarks I find myself shaking my head in disbelief. You replied in to me in an earlier post about not taking any notice of your 'silly' remarks. Sorry the above quote is more than 'silly' in my opinion, it's plain 'stupid'

Jess - there are many long time BC owners here, [ my own experience beiginning in early child hood ].

Please listen to the people who do know what they are talking about

All, whether BC owners or not, feel that the exercise regime you are using with such a youngster is far too much.

BCs are very much the type which do not make it obvious when they are tired, and quite frankly an experienced BC owner will never wait that long to actually see it because by the time a BC does show tiredness, compared to shall we say less `stoic` breeds, for an average healthy BC to show tiredness means they are at the point of exhaustion.

I am quite concerned about your reasons for having a BC - as an agility instructor myself I teach people with all sorts of breeds and mixes but I have never felt I `should` own those breeds to be able to teach them well.

I do research them if not already familiar with their general breed traits, [ including breeds in a mix ], but I do that by reading up and asking other experienced owners about them.

For instance, I had a very recent enquiry from someone about doing agility with a Husky. I have only known Huskys in passing apart from a Husky x Alsatian which I worked with [ behavioural issues ], but the first thing that jumped to mind was the on/off lead thread about them here on Dogsey, and given the age of the dog in question at the moment [ who can come and watch but can`t start training for another five months ], straight away I was able to give her what I consider sound advice, [ he goes off lead at the moment but is going to come into maturity soon... ], and once he does start coming to me for agility proper, if I am unsure of anything I`ll be asking - and listening to - the people here who know the breed inside out.

Please Jess, do the same for your BC - listen to the people who know their/our breed and stop the over exercising before its too late - his long term health is not an `experiment`. No one would tell you to drastically ease up on what you are doing with him if we did`nt feel it was necessary to try to get you to stop doing it.

BC specific puppy info below :

http://www.mastamariner.com/puppy_ad..._exercise.html

"Dogs and Puppies need exercise if they are to grow and remain strong and healthy and lead a long and active life.

In puppies bones are very soft and easily damaged, it is imperative that puppies are allowed to develop their full physical potential unhindered by a punishing regime of exercise.

Over exercising a puppy will lead at best to an unattractive leggy appearance where the adult may have long spindly legs and poor bone and at worst can lead to a crippled dog with poor hips, shoulders and elbows.

If you plan to train your puppy for Sheep Work, Gun dog Tests, Working Trials, Agility, or Fly Ball you should not begin training for the physical aspects of these disciplines until your puppy is at least 16 months and preferably 18 months old. An injury suffered at a young age may trouble a dog for the rest of its life.

Generally until your puppy is 8 months old he will need no exercise other than lots of fun and play with you in the back garden, you should spend these months socialising your puppy rather than walking him. Of course you will need to walk him around to socialise him and may drive him to an open space to run around and play with other friendly dogs but there should be no route marches or pavement slogging during this time. Once your puppy is 8 months to a year old he can begin gentle walks building up gradually to adult proportions. Restraint at this time will help shape a dog that will be active and fit long into old age.

Whether you intend your puppy to be a companion or want to work him at Sheep Work, Gun dog Tests, Working Trials, Agility, or Fly Ball later on, the first priority is always training and control so you will have a busy first year with your puppy before even thinking about going for long walks.

Once your puppy has grown into a healthy adult a good quality diet, lots of healthy exercise will be essential but one 2 mile walk each day is far better than one 14 mile walk once a week. Remember that off the lead, your dog will cover at least three times the distance you walk. "

Jess - there are many long time BC owners here, [ my own experience beiginning in early child hood ].

Please listen to the people who do know what they are talking about

All, whether BC owners or not, feel that the exercise regime you are using with such a youngster is far too much.

BCs are very much the type which do not make it obvious when they are tired, and quite frankly an experienced BC owner will never wait that long to actually see it because by the time a BC does show tiredness, compared to shall we say less `stoic` breeds, for an average healthy BC to show tiredness means they are at the point of exhaustion.

I am quite concerned about your reasons for having a BC - as an agility instructor myself I teach people with all sorts of breeds and mixes but I have never felt I `should` own those breeds to be able to teach them well. QUOTE FROM PATCH

This is a perfect post to you Jess, and may I strongly suggest you read it. I have owned BC's all my life too, which totals 44yrs, and as an EXPERIENCED BC OWNER, your methods ASTONISH ME. You leave me frustrated, annoyed and in disbelief of your methods and quite honestly your reasoning for owning a dog. In one of your post's you point out that your ' carried an empty rucksack, and when your puppy was picked up it wanted to get down' with 'plenty more energy'. I am not really bothered if your rucksack was with you or whether the puppy in question did want to go back down, what EVERYONE is trying to tell you is that this breed will go on and on....that is thier nature. It is up to the 'RESPONSIBLE OWNER' (THAT IS YOU) to make sure that this puppy only exercises for 15 to 20 mins. The puppy is doing what YOU want........... Not you doing whats best for the puppy

But you have! Sorry have to agree with the majority on this matter!

Forgot to add, if a experienced farmer........who has offered to train Skye.....is telling me that he WOULDN'T consider training a dog before 19 months because of the AMOUNT OF ENERGY/AND STRAIN ON JOINTS the dog will use and feel...........................WHAT DOES THAT SAY TO YOU

I am shocked that anyone would walk a young puppy for that long of any breed.

Will also agree with others too as a Border Collie owner and lover from birth. BC's will never stop, they love to walk and run,and most importantly Please You and it is up to you the "responsible owner" to slow them down until they are fully grown adults. Your pup has so much growing too do still, my Meggie is only 18 months and until the last few months I would never of walked for a 4-6 hour walk. As I know she would of done it easily but it isn't good for their joints which are still growing and strengthening.

Mack is 7 months and he has so much energy but no way would Il do a walk like that with him, it is later on in life the dogs suffer.

Why would anybody wish to put their dogs health at risk???
Jess, I don't doubt your love for all your dogs. Please heed the well intentioned advice from all of us.

Border Collies are the most loving , loyal dogs on this planet and will do anything for you.It is an abuse of their "working temperament" to think your puppy will let you know when it has, had enough.They will keep going all day. You are the one who has to decide when the walk should stop.

As I said Mack is very high energy,and would and could walk for hours but he isn't allowed to, as I am trying to be a responsible owner. I find other activities for him to do, it can be hard work , but to help him grow into a healthy adult, well worth it. Border Collies use up far more energy by being mentally occupied than physically. Tire out their brain and you onto a winner.

I grew up on a farm, and though my Dad would teach basic commands as pups etc, they were only allowed to watch until about 18 months and then work for short periods only. Common sense isn't it, no point teaching and training a dog if it is going to be crippled in pain well before it's time, just because you over worked it.