Wow I have just popped on here - don't visit very often as too busy with rottie specific forums and rescue.

However - just had to say ---- PLEASE JESS - listen to this advice you are being given. The very fact that the puppy is looking musclyand chunky is telling you that he is bulking up too quickly.

The 5 mins per month per day is a good rule, and as someone has suggested then just google over exercising puppies and you will find lots on it.

The reason I came across you this morning anyway, was that I was googling over exercising large breed puppies for someone else who has been doing 3 long walks a day with a 6 month old rottie.

Found a good piece while googling which explains about the bones being soft and therefore wearing too much with too much exercise which can lead to complications later.

Can I just clarify something here - are we talking specifically about Border Collies here or all dogs? It's probably worth clarifying as I'm probably not the only one searching for info on this kind of thing and whilst some posters seem to be talking pretty much about this specific breed, others are applying it to all dogs.

The reason I ask, is because this was the advice that I'd got from the internet prior to getting our pup, and I intended to follow it. When I mentioned this to my vet when we got our Beagle pup she told us it was nonesense and that it was a myth primarily spread by breaders that want to be able to blame it on the owneres if pups develop genetic developmental problems. She told me that it was in the dogs best interest to let it get as much exercise as IT wanted (although she stressed not to push it to do more than it wanted). I checked this with a second vet (albeit from the same practice), and got exactly the same advice.

There seem to be a lot of conflicting yet firmly held beliefs. I'd really like to see the studies that have been carried out on this. Hard facts rather than opinions. Is there anything available does anyone know?

I meet up with other puppy owners in the park, and it's a real worry when internet advice (which seems to come from experienced dog owners) conflicts so much with what vets are telling us (I'm not the only one getting this advice from my vet). I have to say that I, and pretty much all the people I meet are going with the vets advice and letting the puppy let us know when it's tired. If there is good reason to think this is wrong I'd very much like to know.

Are there any vets here that can give us more detailed information about this?

For example, I read all sorts of different stories about what the risks are. Some say it causes joint problems. Others say it causes stress fractures. Yet others say it makes the dogs bones grow too long and lanky. If the risk really does exist then how big is it, and does it apply to all breeds? What are the risks of only giving your little pup very short play and exploration sessions during the important learning years of it's life? If puppies (and kids) weren't supposed to run and play all day then why have they evolved with a strong urge to do it?

One other thing that springs to mind that our vet told us....

We'd read that our Beagle's claws would probably need clipping every couple of weeks. The day we got her (12 weeks) we asked the vet to show us how to do it. She told us not to. And advised us that puppies don't get pedicures in the wild - they run and play and that keeps their claws short. She said if her claws get too long it's a sign that we're not exercising her enough. It's a symptom of modern day couch potato lifestyles !!

Logically the '5 minutes per month' rule sounds silly simply on the grounds that all breeds are different. Some only need very short burst (racing dogs for example), whereas others are bred to run all day (beagles for example). It seems very wrong to me that both should be treated the same way as pups. Also, think how fast a little chiwawa's legs are going to keep up with you. Then consider a great dane. The chiwawa would be getting an awful lot more exercise in 5 minutes than that great dane.

Scarter this is the key point.

When puppies are playing in the garden or even in a park, they will stop when they are tired. When you take them on a walk, (particularly on lead) they may show you that they are tired, but they may equally be too worried about being left behind and will keep going. IMO it is what you are doing that is key - if you are walking miles, the pup will have to keep up with you. If you walk once round the park and then sit down and let it play, it will be able to stop when it wants.

This applies to ALL puppies, but my point to Jess about Border Collies is that they are a breed that will not show its tiredness, they just keep going if they think that's what you want, so it is particularly important with them not to put them in the position of over excercising because they want to please you.

I don't have hard facts and figures, I must admit, I did try to have a look for some myself. But the way I say it, is it worth the risk of damaging your pup? Let them play all day if they want, but save the 'route marches' until they are old enough to keep up with getting tired.

That sounds reasonable and is in keeping with what my vet said. Let the puppy be as active as it wants, but don't try and force or encourage it to do more than it wants. Although from what I can gather there's not any studies available that suggest that even enforced walking is harmful, or any agreement upon what harm will occur?? But as you say, it's probably better to be safe than sorry - after all, where's the benefit in forcing a pup to take more exercise than it wants?

It would seem then that the myth is this "5 minute per month" rule and the all too common advice that you should actually prevent your puppy from exercising properly until it's over 2 years old? I'm beginning to come to the conclusion that this advice might be quite harmful.

The trouble is, when people look for advice on how to care for their pup they're being frightened into turning their pups into couch potatoes. I am SO glad that I mentioned to my vet that we planned to restrict her to 15 minute walks at three months old. If I hadn't she wouldn't be getting the lovely long walks and play sessions that she's thriving on now (not just physically, but from a socialization point of view too). We just stroll slowly around the park for an hour or two, but she must cover upwards of 7 or 8 miles in that time! Now if that's good for her (and I understand it is because it's what she wants) then what would she be missing out on if she'd only been getting 20 minutes on the lead?

My guess is that this is the reason that my vet was so forceful about dismissing the "long walks are bad for pups" idea as myth. I would have thought if a very active breed was kept from exercising normally throughout puppyhood it might have problems when it reaches adulthood?

But it would be good to get the hard facts on this topic - just to put all of our minds at rest.

Well I was always a firm believer in the 5 minutes per month rule, and this is what I had been doing with our now 5 month old Airedale Terrier puppy. 4 weeks ago she injured her back left knee whilst jumping up at the worktop to try to pinch some food (very naughty). She's had almost a month of strict bed rest after an x-ray revealed she'd damaged her knee cartilage. She's had an injection of Catrophen every week since, the final one yesterday. The orthapaedic specialist at our large vet practice has seen her three of the 5 visits we've had relating to this injury. Yesterday he deemed her fully rested and recovered and said she could start exercise again (thank goodness, she's definitely bored sick of being stuck in the house now!!). I asked whether he meant build it up slowly, and said I'd been doing 5 minutes per month age of my puppy and he said "no, no, no", and that a decent (up to an hour) of lead exercise for a medium breed dog like an Airedale was perfectly fine, even beneficial and that the 15 to 20 minutes she'd previously been getting wasn't ideal for a growing pup of her breed. He also said that even after a month of rest, it was OK to commence reasonable length walkies straight away. He said if we were shackling her up to do husky racing or having her jump lots then it would be inadvisable, but lead walking was fine.

I still feel a bit worried about over doing it, but took her out for half and hour last night, and two x half hour walks today and there's no sign of a limp or problem with the leg she'd injured, and she trotted along happily with our older dog. She's happily snoozing now (on her big brothers bed, cheeky madame!)

I wouldn't take her out for hours on lead yet, but I feel happier that I can go further than a quick tour around the block. Going on longer walks means we stand more chance of meeting more dogs, people, cyclists and so on too, which is also good for her.

Kate x

Kate, hearing that from a professional in a totally different area from me helps to reassure me that I'm doing the right thing!!

But if the professional advise that we've been given is correct, then the advise that Anne-Marie took from here could surely be doing her pup harm?

Her last sentence is so very true!! But who do we believe? According to what my vet has told me she could be harming her dog by depriving him of his long, healthy walks.

On topics such as this where our decisions have so much bearing on the development of our precious little pups I think someone needs to find a way to get to the bottom of this. Are there any vets on these boards? If so, would they dispute what AiredaleKate's and my vets have said?

Who's the best person to trust on these matters - breeders, dog handlers or vets?

I don't really understand what this thread is about(as it seems to be about a previous thread I didn't see), but I recently read in a dog magazine that the whole idea that giving a puppy too much exercise is paranoia and practically impossible. Up until I read this I firmly believed in the idea, as I'd ehard a breeder talking about it at a dog show, and I just took it on board as 'fact.' She said that the growth plates are still growing and that too much exercise would damage them while they're still in this underdeveloped state.
However the author in the magazine who I think was a vet said that they would have to be running endlessly for many miles every day, nearly all day, for any real damage to occur, and that if the dog does end up with problems it is more likely to be due to bad breeding.
If anything plenty of exercise gets rid of pent up energy, reduces behavioural problems and helps the dog socialise.
It's highly unlikely that any modern owner is going to be giving the dog so much exercise that it will wear its bones down! I don't think it's fair to make keen owners worry about this- it's great they're prepared to take their dog out for lots of walks.
And no caring owner is going to exercise their dog beyond the point when the dog is obviously exhausted, in pain, and gasping etc.
The only time I think you might want to exercise caution is perhaps with giant breeds, but then, these breeds aren't the sort any normal person is going to taking out running next to their bike, for example, are they!

Hello!
The previous thread was one where the OP (on that thread) had taken a 15 week old BC pup on a 4hour walk up a mountain. People took issue as BC's will notriously keep going way beyond the point of exhaustion and not necessarily show it as much as other dogs. Hope that helps to explain what the thread's about!!!!