I can only comment really on the breeds I own. As already stated, BC's vary greatly between working and show lines and I have to say that when I went to the pastoral day at Crufts last year, I did so because I wanted to see the BC's. They didnt interest me at all because they just looked so pampered and incapable of doing what they were bred to do. As a result, i'm not going on pastoral day this year (although I will miss out on the Aussies!)

As for GWP's, they are mainly bred for work still and I dont think there is any difference between show and working really. They arent an overly common breed, particularly as pets so the working drive in them is still high.

The SRHP doesnt have a standard so is unable to be shown. Therefore I deduce they are all bred to work or for pets.

I personally am interested in seeing a dog work, not tiptoe around a ring looking sparkly.

I think there is a definite distinction in many breeds, the BCs as someone has already said, as well as GSDs, Labradors, Goldens...it's really sad. A dog should be able to do the job it was meant to do...have the whole package, not just a pretty cover. Thankfully so far in Flat Coats there is still no real division, but whether or not that remains the case is debatable.

That is probably fine in most breeds Shona, but the working border collie has to be capable of working sheep full stop ... the shepherd doesn't care one jot whether his dogs fit any beed standard, so long as they can work.

As far as Springer Spaniels go - the physical differences between 'working' and 'show' has been discussed at length on other spaniel threads.

Don't want to 're-ignite' the whole Springer debate but Springers which conform to the breed standard tend not to be typical of those you'll see working.

There's absolutely no difference in my hound breeds at all between working and showing

Debs

I think the point Shona was making, is that any good breeder will and should breed to cover all aspects of the breed standard, ie., working, fit the standard and temperament, not just one aspect.

It's when breeders solely concentrate on one aspect that things go awry. In Mals and many other sled dogs, many breeders bred solely for working ability, therefore losing the 'look' of the dog, which ended up looking nothing like the breed ! Then crossbreeding started to get a better sledding dog etc etc etc, so eventually you have the best working dog, but nothing else. I'm not sure I would be willing to sacrifice other parts in favour of just one part.

The way we work the dogs in this country is a far cry from the original work they had to do (and indeed what some still do in the States). However as has been mentioned, their conformation is essential to their function as a working sled dog, although quite a few of the dogs you see in a show ring would not be able to work - not because their conformation isn't ok (although some do have poor conformation or dire feet etc) but because they do not have the heart/drive required. Just because a dog has the correct conformation does not mean it will make a good working dog, the same goes for most working breeds - you can not assess their capability to work any more than you can their health whilst in the ring. Even some with worse construction than others could prove to be better working dogs because they have the heart and drive needed to succeed.

One thing that has been noticed with our breed is that certain markings/colours are seen to be more 'correct' than others by some. I was reading not long ago how exhibitors had come across judges who thought that Grey was the only correct colour for a Mal. It is true that certain colours do better in the show ring as that is what judges prefer, therefore we are finding certain colours (dominant colours) are decreasing in number. People just aren't breeding for them as they will not do as well in the show ring. This is a huge shame as Malamutes come in a wide variety of acceptable colours.

Yes they do - one of the clubs also holds stockwork training days

I understand that - and that is what I am saying, the shepherds and farmers who breed ISDS registered working border collies breed for working ability only. I don't have a problem with that. Working border collies bred solely for working ability still look like a border collie should do.

Great post Kirsty I've seen some stunning reds (for example) that always seem to be overlooked, one in particular at the club show even, who I coudn't take my eyes off of Such a shame Judges dont see them as just as worthy.

Oh Excellent. I love Aussies and think they are stunning little dogs

Are there any other working dogs, that work in their home country but not here ?

Unfortunately I think you will find it is the other way round.The german type dogs are more often shown at breed specific shows as most judges prefer the english type,also a german type GSD will be shown on an extended lead and will be expected to 'gait' for long periods of time which is not posible at a normal show.The german lines also come from dogs bred in germany and over there GSD's must prove their working ability before they can win awards in the ring.

Have a look here..
http://www.videxgsd.co.uk/IMPRESSIONS_SIEGER_2007.htm