what I can tell you is my mum and dad no longer here my dad that is lived through it and it was one of the worst times of their lives. My mum is feeling we are heading exactly the same way she may be 90 but she talks a lot of sense and has lived through a lot of different things in her life and his has unsettled her tremendously and as she says the poor will be hit the hardest just the same as last time.

I believe the old folk who have been there and done it and lived it before over any politician.

they may be right.

however, this post is a different theme to the one i responded to earlier.

but as regards this topic, if we are heading to a great depression style crash, i dont think its due to the gov trying to reduce debt, which is a sensible idea.

i think its due to the fact the the new modern form of capitalism that was created the last 15 yrs or so, that being unfettered globalisation, has got too big, powerful, and out of control, and like all previous forms of international empires, it is now in the throes of failure.
th bank bail-outs etc are just band aids to a slowly dying beast.
just as communism died, so to will capitalism.

that is the lesson of history.

Really don't know anymore Its world wide and far more people than have already been affected will be included in this eventually.

Nobody is safe from these cuts and the effects it is going to have on the everyone and our life styles.

Do you think sick pay should be stopped for all, private and public sectors or just the public sector workers?

Same question really should sick pay be stopped for all.

Also as you say the Government is doing everything right - and this is addressed to everyone really.

Can someone in all this explain to me where the growth is going to come from.

The way I see it is yes we have to cut down the borrowing or actually reduce the interest we are paying back.

But by cutting jobs and public services, stopping building programmes surely then you are putting a bigger burden on the state via benefits. Less money being spent by those that were in jobs slow any growth the economy may have had which in turn will put more people out of work. So where is the money going to come from to actually start paying off the debt?

Either everybody gets it or everybody don't.

There'll be plenty of people still IN work though won't there. Especially in the big finance sector, the companies who ARE doing well etc. etc. Everything has to evolve, and whereas we used to be one of the world leaders in manufacturing, everything has changed, other businesses have now taken over, it's not as dire out there as people may think from what I can see around me. Welfare won't be stopped as such, it's just being capped here and there and if you're capable of working and you haven't found a job in a year, then they look at it again. Maybe you might have to relocate, it's not unheard of is it? In my view, why should some immigrant come over here and claim £1,000 a week to rent a house and GET it!!!! I'm one of the unfortunates who could never, ever, ever claim any benefits whatsoever, because we've chosen to be self employed for many, many years (most of our lives really), so everytime we fall in the sh*te, it's only US who can pull ourselves out of it, we've never had a handout in our life and yet we've managed, somehow, don't quite know how but we did. You can't go through life thinking somebody else is going to pay YOUR way, be it the Government or whoever, it's the middle income families I feel the most sorry for, who are striving to keep the roof above their heads, working 24/7 trying to raise and PAY for their own families, not the ones who sit on their a*ses EXPECTING to live a lifestyle the same as the aforementioned family but don't intend to ever work for it I hope he comes down on them like a tonne of bricks quite honestly!!!!

The way I see it, a public sector worker would probably be getting around £25K a year, but surely they wouldn't get the same amount if made redundant and claiming benefit, so all those thousands of people involved would dramatically reduce the actual outlay from the Government?

Sorry, I've forgotten where I was now in answering this coz I went off on one a tad! Lol!

And it is the middle income families that are going to be hit the hardest.

When Gorden chose to leave his job (teaching 12 years ago) because of ill health he got no help from anywhere always worked except when in college full time to get a degree to better his families life and make a contribution to society a good one. Yet now he has been made redundant and believe you me he is frustrated not just because of that but because he can see the damage that is going to be done to our education system he use to manage a large budget for the council for the schools services.

He says the schools are going to be much worse off through having to pay for the services they should get for free and all the children that have been helped will now be left by the wayside nobody will want to know about them and the schools people like him were pulling up by their boot straps
to get good results are now going to land back in the ****e.

Good point. We've already decided not to have a week away next week for half term because of the concern over cuts and will look at ways to save money just in case.

What happens if these people experience so many cuts that they end up a lower income family, unable to buy the things they used to and possibly ending up needing benefits too (if there are any for them to claim!)? Some will have worked really hard in order to try to get a good/well-paid job and have a good standard of living and not rely on benefits, save money and try to fund pensions etc. For what, if they end up having it all taken away?

Whilst of course I sympathise tremendously with Gorden's current situation, I cannot say that these new plans are wrong, how does anybody actually KNOW that yet, it's all assumptions, because nobody knows the outcome do they? Quite honestly, from where I'm sitting, redundancies have gone on for years in the private sector, heck, I was even made redundant myself in my first ever job, let alone what Dave went through, and he too,although not having a degree as such, spent many hours/weeks/months getting through college to get his qualifications to do the job he wanted, same as me,two years at college and then I'm made redundant after 6 months in my first job, so I know all about it, but I was young enough to get on with it, unlike Dave was in his later years.

I'm under the impression and correct me if I am wrong, but people in the public sector always thought they're job was very "safe", if you worked for any Government Department this kind of thing didn't happen to you, and sadly, now it has, you're not as safe as you thought you were because of this new shake up, but of course, people who have never worked in the public sector, have always lived with this hanging over their heads in every job they've taken on.

I don't know the answer, all I know is, we've got far too many people doing far too many jobs, and if cut-backs can be made for the Country (let alone our Government!) to survive, then so be it, it's the very same thing that happens day in day out in companies, when times are hard, cut backs have to be made where they can, and if staff have to go in order to save the company, that's what happens. Dave had to let go a member of staff who had worked for him for 10 years last Christmas, and pay him a considerable amount of money for the priveledge, but if he didn't, he would have gone bust due to the slowdown in work because of the recession. Hard times fall on everybody, nobody can escape from this, I just don't want it to get worse for the whole of the Country if we can get away with making it worse for a few (as awful as it has to be, it's a must in our dire situation).

If Gorden is right, and the schools will have to "buy in" the necessary, they must have done the figures, the will know how much that "necessary" could possibly add up to, and even then, it still works out less than paying somebody a monthly salary to have it in place whether it's needed or not. Not saying what Gorden did was NOT necessary there, I'm just saying in some instances, that could very well be the case.