Thanks Tracey, will look them up. Do they do workshops in the North West though?
Elaine xx

Did the rescue look for working homes for these pups initially? It sounds to me as though they would have been wise too

I am sure you are right, that with the right training and channelling of her energy, Poppy can happily live in a pet home and I wish Elaine all the best too.

Regarding the nipping though, it is interesting that not one of our working collies nip. When working sheep they don't nip either. If called for, a sheepdog will grip a sheep by the nose to make it turn and move, however I have seen very, very few working collies that nip the heels (or whatever else!) of sheep.

I perhaps didn't explain myself properly - by unprovoked nipping I mean she has lunged and nipped people (I think I am right in saying this) without anyone trying to interact with her, running away from her etc.

I agree that it does show frustration, and this is precisely why I go on so much about people owning collies must think VERY carefully about what *work* they can provide for their dog.

Poppy was an emergency rescue, if you remember Steph put up a post about Pops and her sister. The guy that rescued them from their home in Wales lives in Birmingham. He could not look after them, for personal reasons. I could not,in my heart leave her. I thought, no sorry, know I did the right thing.
To me she is a dog and is loved and cared for, given games to play and lots of exercise. She is only 25 weeks, so there is lots of time to channel her energies still.
I dont own a farm or have access to sheep. I know lots of Border Collies that live happily is urban areas. We have a huge park, lake and a forest near by....What more can a dog wish for!
Maybe the nipping is due to frustration, I dont know, Your dogs clearly get all the work they need, so no doubt dont feel the urge to 'nip'.
Poppy is not my first dog I have always owned dogs in the past. We have Ben who is a Border Collie Cross. I have had Cocker Spaniels, Boxers..... They had fulfulling lives with me and my family.
When Poppy lunged when she was with me, the guy was running towards her, in the dark. I'm not making excuses for her but I think it was fear that triggered it. Last night on a walk, she was fine, Ok, she barked at cars, but I think that is a fear thing too! I dont believe that Poppy is aggressive and time will proove me right.
Elaine x

I must say that I'm still not convinced where the nipping comes from. Until Stumpy I'd never experienced a nippy collie, (though I'd heard plenty about them) and did think it was lack of proper stimulation.

But I do wonder - dogs that work sheep shouldn't nip - but don't those that work cattle nip the backs of their legs to get the moving?

If so, is it possible that those that have a tendency to nip are from cattle (rather than sheep) working lines?

Hi

I have only just caught up with this thread and for starters should say that I dont know anything about Poppy and haven't read anything about where she came from etc etc.

She sounds to me like she is a very worky collie girl, that gives things the collie eye and if I had to hazard a guess at what she looks like, i would say smallish, lean and possibly short coated.

Although I wouldn't say it is 'normal' behaviour, as it is not a desirable trait in a pet dog, it is far from abnormal in working stock collies that are frustrated and trying to find an outlet for what they feel as instinct and dont know how to deal with it. It is certainly something that needs addressing and can be quite distubing when you feel all alone with no one to help. I remember well the first time I came across it.

If you do decide to contact Wiccaweys, who are as previously mentionned fabulous at explaining collie behaviour and making suggetions. Please remember that it is run by a couple and they spend the majority of their day outside with the dogs and deal with the phonecalls are done as soon as they can, you will more than likely need to leave a message and they will get back to you when they can. Particularly if it is a behavioural issue as they will want to have the time to discuss it thoroughly. They charge nothing for their advice but if you feel it is good advice and it works for you, a donation would be appreciated.

I look forward to updates and hearing how you are getting on.

Thanks Alexa I will get in touch with them.
When you described what you thought Poppy looked like....
You were spot on







Elaine x

These are the latest photos of Poppy, she is about 26/27 weeks old now. You can see how small she is next to her big brother Ben, Mind you Ben is a collie x and much bigger! 22"

My Rjj is a pure working bred smooth coat & has never offered to nip me or anyone or anything. He learnt bite inhibition from both his mother & my Dad's GSD Abbey.

She is not showing aggression IMHO, but frustration, fear & lack of correct conditioning not to nip. Few puppies are truly aggressive, this bitch didn't have the best of starts in life & with the greatest respect isn't in the most perfect home for a fairly high drive bitch. She needs to have her energies channelled away from "baby"puppy behaviour & into training that will challenge her brain & body.

The problem with the barking a one sign of fear of something-bark & whatever you are frightened of disappears-bark at a passing car & the car disappears so the dog perceives it has been successful.

I know a lot of people on here do not like Barbara Sykes(I don't know what she has ever done to them to make them dislike her as she has a lifetime of hands on experience with all types of Border Collies & their myriad of possible problems)but I would think that Barbara's approach would be more appropriate than anyone else.

Cant disagree with you on that!!!!

Its just different ways of working, different breeds of shheep etc, Mine will nip the air to get something moving rather than biting the actual thing!