I used to feed Burns, I now feed raw and I would never go back to dry food. The one thing that Mr Burns says in his post that I find interesting is this:

I have the books by Dr Billinghusrt and I have to admit that I am not a big fan of his BUT he states this in there and they were written some time ago. In his critique of the BARF diet Mr Burns claims that it does not stand up to scrutiny yet now he seems to be agreeing with part of it............

having followed this debate I have looked into foods suggested.
The forum suggestes the natural dog food company without as it does not use synyhetic vitamins. I have spoken to my local vets and nutritional supports in Sussex and they say it is not possible to use natural vitamins!!! They cannot be guarenteed with the cooking process and this leaves the 'complete food' as debateable!!!!

I have also noticed, Don't know if anyone else has..... that the holistic dog food company is certified holistic by the BAHNM (british association of holistic natural medicine) But this is operated by the same man from the same address as the natural dog food compamny as far as i can see!!!!
Are they certifying themselves???????

Interesting Whistle

I think the feeding of any dried complete food has to be viewed logically, most of them contain artificial ingredients/preservatives of one kind or another, some a lot more than others and these additives contributing to the cocktail of harmful chemicals we give to our dogs, wormers and pesticides included (and what about drinking water containing hormones from human contraception that has affected the fish population and male sperm )

You pay a price for the convenience of just going to a cupboard and opening a packet without any preparation being involved.

A number of manufacturers clearly set out to find the minimal nutritional requirement for the maximum profit and this 'perfect formulation ' was arrived at by carrying out cruel procedures on dogs.

Circumstances resulted in my having to feed a complete food or a while and I fed Burns because it was the 'lesser evil' having a minimum of additives/did not use cruel testing on dogs. I have now returned to feeding fresh food

Interesting indeed! Unfortunately, in the world of pseudoscience, self-accreditation is quite routine.

I don't believe even raw feeders know about everything that their dogs consume, unless perhaps they feed verifiably organic meat and vegetables. But for lazy mares like me, at least Burns let me opt-out of supporting battery farming of chickens!

I don't know if Burns' policy has changed in the last few years but I attended a promotional day at the premises a while ago. I asked several questions one of which was about the meat source. Neither John Burns nor the nutrionists were able to name the meat source (lamb and chicken) except to say that the chickens were not free range.

Answers to other questions including those on protein levels relating to cereal type were unanswered on the day though I did receive a letter some days later.

I did feed some Burns before this but not since.

Hi there

I am not at all surprised at the information contained in this thread. I have been saying for years that something that can sit in your cupboard for up to a year cannot be completely natural. That said, I personally think it is appalling that a company markets itself as being "holistic" which means it supports the organs - and then includes a synthetic vitamin supplement that can do damage in humans.

Burns seem to be very good a discrediting other pet food companies but seem to do very little to instil confidence in their own products. I have fed Burns to my 4 dogs in the past but now only feed them a home cooked natural diet. That said, you then get onto the argument about how natural the meat is that you buy in the supermarket. However, I believe that I am doing the best I can for my dogs.

JOhn Burns' brother has just started his own company called Holistic Pet Nutrition and I had a chance to speak to him at length during Border Union Show. He was a former director of Burns Pet Nutrition but has now left to start up his own company. What does that tell you? Perhaps this is the new company and new complete dog food JB is talking about.

I have to admit that I have an interest in the pet food industry as I manufacture natural dog treats and have just introduced a natural home cooked dog food into my range. I can't compete with the big boys - and nor would I want to, but when you work in this industry you realise just what goes on. The only way that I preserve my products is through vacuum packing. There are absolutely no preservatives included as that goes completely against the grain for me. I am glad that the big boys are now finally being found out!!!!

To let you be aware, most of the pet foods manufactured in bulk in this country are manufactured by the same place, using almost the same ingredients, but go into different bags.

Now that I know what I know I will never feed my dogs a complete dry food again. I will always opt for the fresher alternative. My dogs look absolutely fabulous on it and that says it all for me.

Its big business so there's a lot that goes on behind the scenes. Please don;t be fooled by marketing campaigns. Ask the questions.

Kind regards
Annie

I've checked on the website now, just to see what the present policy is and interestingly the ducks are "free range" but the hens are "battery Free." Seems as if there could be a bit of a grey area in the middle. Done a search and "battery free" doesn't seem to be recognised classification. Just means free of batteries I suppose.

Also "Or we may choose free range because of concerns about animal welfare" Hmm that leaves quite a lot of room for variation.

Yes, that's what I was shocked discover when I visited Burns expecting to find their own idependant processing plant. And probably why Mr Burns had no idea where his meat came from.

Why do people start out with a product that is really good, the ethos is excellent; there is a real concern for animal welfare in its production - And then change the goalposts when they have enough customers believing what they say.

I have noticed a distinct change in the average dog owner around the country. People are now more clued up on what is actually included in their dog food and will ask questions that even sometimes I am shocked at the knowledge behind it. I think that's great. If you have nothing to hide then you welcome questions.

Burns is marketed as using free range chickens, free range eggs, holistic, and the list goes on. Does this appear to be the case now?

However, I do believe that this is just the tip of the iceberg and more findings will come out about other "natural" dog food companies.

That's an interesting fact about BAHNM. I didn't know that. People join these organisations as a way of differentiating their products from the multitude of rubbish that is masquerading as "natural". Hmmmm, now there's a thing!!!!!!!!

Kind regards
Annie

Someone just emailed me the full list of ingredients that's in Burns Chicken and Rice if anyone wants to have a read.....from an American website.

http://www.burnspethealth.com/Burns_...n_for_Dogs.htm