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Location: UK
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,065
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08-02-2011, 09:53 PM
Originally Posted by Adam Palmer 
Discomfort changes behaviour all the time, anytime you adjust your position in your chair, any time you blink or shield your eyes in strong sunlight, anytime you change the temperature of your environment you are changing your behaviour to deal with discomfort.
Adam
)People learn to deal with discomfort on a daily basis - and the more you deal with it - the more desensitised you get to it.
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Location: USA/UK
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,421
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08-02-2011, 09:53 PM
Originally Posted by Adam Palmer
So what if it was in USA, this is a world wide board after all.
Adam
It doesn't mean it's right to use one! Yes, you see lots of dogs wearing them here sadly, and you also have lots of people who thankfully condemn them. Same goes for shock collars, just because you can buy them , doesn't mean you should use them.
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Location: Lincolnshire
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 8,956
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08-02-2011, 09:54 PM
Originally Posted by Adam Palmer
I'm not saying reward is bad or that aversive is bad just that it occurs during any form of training.
Adam
Can you really not see the difference and why people prefer the former and abhor the latter?
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Location: In an English country cowpat
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,810
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08-02-2011, 09:55 PM
Originally Posted by Westie_N
I think they must get some sick, twisted kick out of torturing dogs with these devices. IMO, no sane person would inflict this on their beloved animal.
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Location: UK
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,065
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08-02-2011, 09:58 PM
Originally Posted by Brierley
I'm so pleased to hear that you have no problem in deliberately inflicting a reward, but it still saddens me greatly to know that you also have no problem in deliberately inflicting a physical punishment
Can you really not see the difference and why people prefer the former and abhor the latter?
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Location: UK
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,497
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08-02-2011, 10:04 PM
Originally Posted by Tassle
You see...I deal with discomfort...I change with pain. (which is possibly why my shoulder ended up in such a fearful state
)People learn to deal with discomfort on a daily basis - and the more you deal with it - the more desensitised you get to it.
Adam
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Location: UK
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,065
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08-02-2011, 10:07 PM
Originally Posted by Adam Palmer
Not if you deal with it succesfully!
Adam
I will give you a for instance - my training hall is very cold....I wear the same clothes now as I was wearing then...not change - I deal. How am I dealing with that successfully....and I can tell you - it can be flipping uncomfortable to be that cold!
Would you like to tell me how I make that more comfortable for myself? (As it does not seem to be working whatever it is)
Edit...also why I ignored the discomfort in my shoulder until it actually became painful (to painful to bear)...what mechanism made me do that?
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Location: USA/UK
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,421
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08-02-2011, 10:09 PM
You go train a dog using only positive methods only, and then maybe people would take you more seriously. Go hang up the zappers, and prongs, and do the dogs a favour, as you don't come across as someone who even loves or respects dogs at the moment.
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Location: UK
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,497
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08-02-2011, 10:10 PM
In the case of dogs it would be performing the behaviour that relieves the discomfort, ceasing to pull for example.
Adam