But you are putting the cart before the horse, first you have to work out how you licence all breeders. Have you any idea what would be involved?

[QUOTE=duboing]

Back to the point. Having seen dog (or rather owner) licensing effectively instituted I have to disagree with tose of you who believe it can't be done. Where I grew up, and my where my mum lives, dogs have to wear coloured license tags, with fines implemented on owners whose pets do not have them. This is particularly important in Northern Ireland, a part of the UK where a poor culture of animal welfare has deep historical roots.

I live in Northern Ireland currently (Belfast, to be precise) and I can categorically state that I see evidence every single day that dog licensing is not effective.

As i stated previously, only the responsible dog owners actually buy a licence and we're not the ones who are likely to be allowing our dogs to wander the streets etc. Fines are only dished out if a dog happens to be picked up straying and the owner comes to claim it. I know of a lot of cases where the owners have told them to keep the dog as they won't pay the fine. So adding to the number of dogs in the shelter. There are no 'spot checks' done so hundreds (probably thousands) of dogs go unlicenced every year and the Council is none the wiser. They can't police it any other way, only if the dog comes to their attention.

I work in social housing and I have spent a lot of time in various estates across Belfast and have seen dogs roaming freely, no licence tag, no ID, nothing. The dog warden isn't interested because there are a lot of areas they simply won't go into to lift dogs for fear of the recriminations.

The USPCA have acknowledged a growing problem of the breeding of pit-bull and crosses all across N. Ireland. There have been a number of instances lately of pit-bull types being shot for killing other dogs and there have been at least two reports in the last couple of months where children have been attacked. A dozen or so 'dangerous' dogs have been destroyed yet no-one has been prosecuted for ownership of these dogs in YEARS. Why? Because the Councils are the ones with the powers to prosecute but they don't. They happily take our money for the licence fee, hand out fines if your dog is caught straying or fouling but they can't be bothered to prosecute people who break the law (because that might cost a few quid rather than bring in revenue). A quick search of the Belfast Telegraph online archives (use 'pit bull' or 'dangerous dog' as a search term) will give you some idea of the scale of the problem. Then there were the 3 farms raided early in the year, yielding over 120 dogs...all stolen/bred for fighting (several pit-bulls included). No-one has been prosecuted for that either to date.

The statistics speak for themselves...more than 50% of the dogs PTS in the UK each year are in N.Ireland. Think about that...human population of N.I is about 1.5 million. Human population of rest of UK is about 60 million but N.I contributes to half the dogs PTS every year??? Atrocious! I am ashamed of my country for this.

Still think licensing is effective in promoting responsible ownership? If licensing was scraped in N. Ireland tomorrow the sitution would be no better or no worse.

NOPE, but as I will never be doing it, it's kinda irrelevant .. But I guess a good place to start would be the KC and then look further out onto the internet.. encorage the good citizens of the UK to "tell tales" or put out national TV and radio ads enlightening all the breeders to the new licensing laws.. infact it would create such an uproar the media would ensure every one and his brother knew about it.. information is shared nationwide on a daily basis....why should this be any different ??
Puppies come from somewhere . if they have a registered Identity from the breeder and a change of ownership is completed whenever the Pup's move on, in the long term all dogs born should have a traceable history.. I think owner and breeder licensing go hand in hand,

Rachel

I voted no, for all the reasons already stated by Pita.

The money from licensing could also go in to paying for the care of dogs in rescue and with more revenue maybe they would not need to pts so many dogs because they cannot rehome them? Just an idea.

Making it compulsery gives no one an option and as for people who cannot pay maybe they can spread the cost, like you can a tv license? People will get used to it and Rachel is right maybe you could fine people without a license to pay for the on going care of their dog until it is rehomed. If that dogs care is paid for why would it be put ot sleep, maybe even more animal shelters would be opened to relieve the ones we have which are bursting at the seams?

Jackbox I did not think that you were an irresponsible owner, not unless you let your dog run free to attack everyone and I am sure you do not I think that I was generalising and dangerous is far from agressive

What like road tax is supposed to be spent on the roads, but isn't? What do they do with unlicenced vehicles do they sell them to recoup the lost revenue, no they destroy them.
Would you really trust the government to spend the money collected from dog owners on dogs? I wouldn't.
It would become yet another form of taxation. No doubt any dog deemed undesirable would become the 4x4 of the canine world.
I'm sure your motives are well intentioned but you would be reliant on the government to enforce it, and who would police it our over stretched police force. I think they would take your money but it would end there.

Millions of pounds are spent improving and maintaining our roads.. from traffic lights to line markings.. resurfacing and crash barriers. our roads are maintaned to the extent that we never notice a marked detioration(sp) To be honest I think the cars are destroyed to make a point..
Some dogs are already considered the 4x4 of the dog world.. pit bulls already condemned, presa's have been named recently here as headed for the dda ... dog licensing would be reliant on the govenment, and wether they took the issues seriously enough to commit the manpower to enforce it ....after all they have had no problems enforcing council tax ... but as previously said .. this is an ideal world scenario ...In the real world the government would happily DDA dogs, give paltry fines to abusers it is easier than taking a pro active stand to stop these situations from arising

Rachel

Who doesn't notice a marked detioration, we have to repeatedly complain in order to get roads resurfaced. We have potholes so big that they can break your axle. Both the AA and Rac repeatedly lobby the government over the raw deal the motorist gets. The money collected from road tax and fuel duty is not spent on the roads. Some of it might be, but compared to the revenue raised the revenue spent is minimal. Just as money collected from dog owners, if such a tax should be implemented would not be spent on dogs.
Yes the government manages to enforce council tax and goes as far as imprisoning pensioners who claim they can't continue to meet the ever increasing tax. They manage to find a place in a prison for them and yet how many real criminals are let off with community service. I guess that is the government making a point as well.
I know of the dogs dda'd but that list would soon grow too, If the government could extract more for larger breeds or more feared breeds then it would. I would expect very little if anything in return.

Please understand that I am aware of the poor record of animal welfare in NI. As I tried to say before, probably not very clearly, this is a deep-rooted cultural issue. NI and the Republic both admit to dubious care of their animals, but you can't just disregard dog-licensing on that basis. To assume a similar result if dog-licensing were reinstituted in Great Britain is to tar pet owners here with the same disregard for animals, and that's an inappropriate extrapolation.

Admittedly I am unfamiliar with the situation in Belfast estates, but I know that cities anywhere tend to have worse problems with stray dogs, dog-fighting and illegal breeding of banned breeds, Liverpool is no exception. But before you write-off dog-licensing in NI, go and see the other side of it. Visit the areas where dog-wardens are there to protect and support licensed dog owners. Go for a walk on Portstewart Strand and count the licensed and unlicensed dogs you meet.

I fully admit to having had a biased picture of the situation, and I willingly take your points on board.

This Government can't deal with NHS spending, education, immigration, crime, ID cards, the Home Office, transport, terrorism, the Child Support Agency or Mr. Prescott. I don't hold out much hope for dogs.