The question was simply asked because it would seem that those of us who have never bred a litter (never mind bred the same breed successfully for over 30 years) cannot surely grasp the level of knowledge and complexity that goes into producing successful litters. When you think that the breeder must know sire and dam lines going back for generations and then choose the right sire for their bitch to compliment her (hopefully, but breeding is not a science), know all about temperaments that are likely to come through in pups, as well as genetic conditions, work drive, social drive etc etc etc, then it is quite mind-blowing. It is so much more than numbers on pieces of paper.

The breeder I bought my WL dog off is reputable as far as I am concerned, as she has the breed's wellbeing at heart. She knows this breed inside and out, is knowledgeable and dedicated to her dogs. She has produced many successful working police dogs, prison dogs and some sport dogs as well as active, well balanced companion and family dogs. My dog is healthy and from health tested parents, with an outstanding temperament (which can be lacking in this breed in many instances unfortunately) and is goddamned gorgeous too Not much wrong there!

Unfortunately it would seem that the working line dog is coming away from what it should be with the focus being on sport (rather than work) and the true balanced temperament is being lost in the quest for more and more drive and masking of the true dog by electric training.

Of all the dogs currently working at the top in UK, Zak's breeder doesn't know of any that are not electric trained and this is why she doesn't use them, as she simply would not know what she was using in terms of self control, biddability and natural speed because the dogs are working like machines in a stressy way.

Her words, not mine - and again, it goes to show that this breeder has her finger on the pulse of what is happening in terms of potential stud dogs.

Absolutely spot on yet again BenMc! I want to keep reppie-ing you , but it won't let me.

I agree with Rune about temperament too. I would bet there are far more dogs on the UK's streets with a bad temperament than bad health.

So by your admission above, surely you must realise that breeding a litter is not a numbers game?

Another well-informed post, spoken by someone with obvious experience.

Not sure I understand what you mean

As said previously, there must surely be enough healthy, well adjusted dogs that look like their breed out there so that diversity can still take place?

If not, why not?

You said ... I agree with you (Rune's post). There are many, many considerations that a decent breeder has to take on board.

And therefore when a breeder is looking to breed a healthy, purposeful litter, it isn't as simple as putting two (on paper) healthy dogs, with good individual temperaments. There is so much more to it than that. You need to find a dog that will compliment the bitch - his strengths may make up for her weaknesses and so on and so forth. Dogs are not perfect - you have to do the best you can with the knowledge and experience you have.

Getcha and yes, I agree for the most part, but I'm scratching my head at the strengths and weaknesses as, of course, you can never know whether the strength or the weakness will show through in the pups

I would have thought it obvious that to breed from a genetically nervous bitch or dog is tempting fate and so should not be done. I would have thought it just as obvious that to breed from a dog or bitch with a known genetic disorder should also not be done.

Oh I think we can, you don't have to be in it to understand all the complexities involved when breeding.

Granted it takes years of knowledge to understand you lines and others , but it does not take 30 years to understand that breeding from dogs ( when you don't need to) that have less than good health results is not in the best interest of ones breed.

What irony?

I'm quite shocked that you seem to think just because the vast majority of use have never bred dogs we don't understand the basic principles. Of course we do, but what I can never, ever condone is a breeder who has taken risks in the past and seen the consequences, has openly stated that uneven hip scores can be trouble, but then has proceeded to do the exact same thing all over again! Is one set of severely dysplastic puppies not enough???

As far as I'm concerned, given the evidence I've seen on this thread, your breeder is clearly breeding for her own ego. She has seen the fallout from using a dog with uneven hips, but continues to do it all over again just because she can, because it happens to suit what she wants to produce and as long as the puppy buyers get their money back when their pup turns out to be crippled then it's acceptable. In my mind she has the exact same ethos as the worst kind of show breeder: I'll do what I want because I've always done what I want regardless of the consequence to the dogs.

Again I will say it: I don't care how special this dog is he should not be bred from due to his uneven hips and the VERY real risk of him passing this on to his offspring. End of story.