sorry the red bits are wheyyyy too big, whhops!!!!

Well have you checked in with them lately? Maybe they've made some revisions? I'll have to get the link to a recent study...ah well thats science for you...its ever changing!

Shaun Ellis who has studied captive wolves & inbred a bitch to a sibling !!!! which is as we all know exactly what happens in the wild(NOT)

Dear doG

I know what my bitch would do to any strange dog(& even her full brother)that tried to sniff her & I would never stop her & just the opposite is natural for her, she actively chooses which dog can sniff at her & there's only one !

Yes, IF the dog itself consents to being sniffed. It isn't natural for a dog to be held down so that another dog can sniff it. Loki doesn't like other dogs to approach him from behind and he really doesn't like other dogs sniffing their snouts up his bum, especially without invitation.

I wouldn't shoot you down and of course you are entitled to your opinion. I just don't agree that the kind of treatment CM dishes out is anything to do with what you describe above. I'm not convinced that 'pack mentality' should involve the kind of bullying I've seen and as we are not dogs - and dogs realise this - I believe that his behaviour must leave them feeling bewildered. Aren't we supposed to know better? They may well eventually submit to him but not for the right reasons and possibly with a damaged relationship - I'd rather not risk my relationship with my dog by treating him as CM has in the clips that I've seen.

I worry if such a famous celebrity dog trainer makes mistakes that have the potential to severely damage a dog mentally. It's not as though he's just not responded quickly enough and ended up rewarding unwanted behaviour - he's actually punishing the dogs and given this, I do not feel there is any room for mistakes. His ego = a dog suffers.

But don't forget that most scientists who research dogs still seem to be using "Canis familiaris" .... I can say this because much of my study at the moment involves looking at research journals involving dogs including recently published ones.

Wys
x

I'm sorry I will never accept that CM know's anything about dogs other than how to force them to do what he wants. He harps on about the 'bite' which he use's, a sort of finger jab, and claims that this is how dogs gain each others attention. Well I have to say that that is the biggest pile of brown steamy stuff I have ever heard. My dogs do not bite each other to gain anothers attention. They don't even bite each other when one is being annoying to the other. They use a comprehensive range of subtle and not so subtle body language to communicate their intentions and biting is really a final resort.
Becky

Sorry! Have just seen my name mentioned and looked up what I said! (Sooo long ago and I tend to keep out once threads get this long!)

I should make it more clear. I purposely brought up those things because Cesar does them.

However, the 'claptrap' is as to why. As I said, I don't want to get knocked flying as I open the door or for my dogs to escape if I open the door to someone else and don't want the dogs outside. Therefore, they are taught to wait til I say they can go out. Not because it will teach them I am pack leader.

I expect them to wait for the words 'paid for' when being fed because it saves them getting their head covered in kibble and tends to help them learn not to pinch from the floor if I drop something. Not because it will teach them I am pack leader. And I would not dream of forcing them to wait until after I've finished eating before they get any as my meal times are so erratic!

I do some of the things Cesar advocates but for very different reasons and there are a heck of a lot of things I will not do that Cesar advocates and recommends.

I would never:
'finger pinch', 'alpha roll', force a dog into submission, force a dog to be sniffed, kick a dog, yank a dog on a choke or pinch collar, flood a dog with it's worst fears whilst getting it to run on a treadmill wearing a choke chain (that dog died)... the list goes on.

I also teach many of the things I do that Cesar does (such as not taking food, not rushing out of the doorway etc.) using clickers and teach everything with positive reinforcement.

My dogs do not fear what will happen to them if they disobey (well ok, VERY occasionally the water spray came out - yesterday it came out for the first time in at least a year and I never squirted it - that is as far as I go on avoidance). As a result, they trust me enough to try something even if they're not sure they'll get it right - because let's face it, 'what's the worst that could happen?'

Don't get me wrong, everything has a consequence. And I will employ, to some degree, negative punishment (ie. the removal of something desirable in response to an unwanted behaviour) but do not engage in positive punishment or negative reinforcement as there is simply no need in risking my relationship with my dogs. Especially as one of them works as an assistance dog for me - she has to be able to trust me.

So yes - my point was I will do some of the basics that Cesar advocates, but in a very different way and for a very different reason and I don't worry constantly that my dogs are becoming dominant and wanting to take over the world!

I have ... mine !

Well said Trouble ... an excellent post. I know several Americans, and what you say about their back yards is very true.

I totally agree as well with your "shoot the owners" statement !