Vibration/Shock collar advice please?

Hi all, I joined this forum quite a while ago when I got my newest addition to the pack, he is a mastiff/labrador/rotty mix hes very affectionate gets on well with my sprocker spaniel and old labrador too the problem I'm having is when I try and walk all 3 together.......my spaniel likes to run about chasing birds or rabbits or a ball my labrador tends to stay by my side as she has arthiritus in her back legs, Jack however will not leave my spaniel alone, he chases her constantly and bites her wherever he can get a mouthful usually the neck/shoulder area and hangs on. Now hes a big dog with a powerful jaw and she has yelped a few times as they are always off lead when it happens I cannot pyhsically stop him. I will call and shout him to 'leave' but he ignores my spaniel will either stop in her tracks until he lets her go or until I get to him, or she will try and make her way back to me with Jack attached? Hes been castrated and to training classes but the training didnt help with the problem? So now the situation is that I walk Jack by himself and then the two girls by themselves. I'm seriously considering a vibrate/shock collar as I don't know what else to do? I really think it will help as it will discipline him as soon as he is using unacceptable behaviour? Has anyone else used one of these collars? Ive read lots of reviews on Amazon and they seem to do the trick.........

Please dont use one
It could make him associate her with the pain and end up with him attacking her worse

Prob the best thing is to get a one on one GOOD positive behaviourist in to have a look at what is going on

walking them seperate is good, how about also keeping him on the lead while she is playing - it is possible that he is just becoming too excited watching her play and needs some time to get used to it

Please dont punish him tho - it could backfire worse

Please dont purchase one, they are old fashioned torture devices and will not help you or your dog.

There are many experienced people on here who can help you with advice or speak to a behaviourist as the last poster advised.

If you can't stop him then it may be worth keeping him on-lead, or on a longline for now.
How long have you had Jack? Casper used to do similar behaviour with Kiki initially but he settled down and got the idea that she didn't like it. If your Spaniel won't tell him off herself though, he may not be gettign the hint (Kiki will tell Casper off, not violently but quite firmly). He can sometimes be a bit OTT with other dogs and try to play with them in a similar way too so when we're out he's either on a longline or muzzled (or both), depending on where we are, who we're with, etc. The longline stops him being able to run over to strange dogs and scare them with this behaviour, the muzzle stops him being able to grab them with his mouth - I can let him off in certain situations and know he won't run off or pester dogs too much but I tend to keep the muzzle on as a precaution and to break the habit of playing this way.

I would advise against a shock collar. I think it's far more effective to teach a dog correct behaviour, rather than punish bad behaviour. Also, you can cause the dog to have bad associations with certain situations or objects.
For example, if you were a bit friendly with people and kept giving everyone a big bear hug every time you met them, and then giving them random hugs throughout the day, how would you feel if you were suddenly receiving a shock every time you went to hug someone? You'd probably stop hugging them after a few times when you realised what was causing it, but would you have stopped because you realised it's over the top behaviour, or would you have stopped because it made it painful to do so? You may even start to feel wary approaching people incase that triggers a shock. Alternatively, you might not figure out that the shock happens when you hug people - maybe you went to hug someone and a car drove past at the same time, and zap! 10 minutes later you go to hug someone else, and you hear a car beep its horn, zap! You're walking home, see a friend, give them a big old bear hug to say hello and a car happens to pull up in the parking spot next to you, zap! Yikes - these cars are nasty things, they keep giving you electric shocks! You become wary and on edge around cars now, incase they give you another horrid zap. In dogs, electric collars can cause a dog to become wary of other things that happen to be present at the time of the shock, and this can end up causing more problems than it fixes.
However, throw away the electric collar. You go to work, you're about to hug someone and find yourself stopped short - you're tethered to someone who's stopped you going over to hug your colleague. You're a bit confused but you carry on your business. Go to hug someone else, and again, you find yourself prevented from doing it. After a few more times, you're then taught to give a handshake instead, and when you give your next colleague a handshake, they give you a fiver. The next handshake earns you another few quid, or a chocolate, or a compliment - you discover that this behaviour is not only rewarding, but also allows you to interact with people without being pulled away by your tether. It soon clicks that your hugging behaviour results in a lack of freedom and interaction, but a calm handshake gets it back. Voila, you've learnt an alternative behaviour and you've not had a single shock.

Prevent your dog from practising his bad behaviour - use a form of retraint if necessary, take him on off-lead walks by himself to expel his energy, you want to break the habit. Then slowly re-allow interaction, but in your terms, not his. You want to re-teach him the polite way to interact with other dogs. You might find it benefits him to meet other dogs with the same rules in place - longline or lead to keep him in control initially, and not allowing the rude behaviour, so he learns these behaviour is a widespread "rule" - I walk Casper with another member on here's dog and they're both learning better manners with each other by being kept on longlines and being praised for calm interactions, and not allowed to practice the bouncing, scruffing and splatting that they wanted to do. We're getting there, less and less rude behaviour each walk

Have you looked into having a behaviourist come and help you? Even one initial assessment might give you a good starting block to work from. http://www.apbc.org.uk

Thanks for the replys so far, I have got a long line for him but he's so energetic and powerful that he nearly pulls my arm out of its socket when he takes off and I get in a muddle trying to wind all the excess back up constantly? Although walking Jack on his own might be stopping the behaviour hes still not learning that his behaviour isnt acceptable with my spaniel and I dont want her getting hurt whilst hes learning! So I guess i was looking for a quick fix? Its not practical for me to walk my dogs seperately and I suppose I was hoping he would grow out of it after all hes only just a year old now. Haven't tried walking all together for a few months now but maybe its time to try again and see? Maybe persevere with the long line after all practice makes perfect!!

A perfect answer........

Last time I walked all 3 together I kept Jack on lead whilst spaniel and lab had a run about then put them on lead and let Jack have a run about but he was constantly hassling spaniel while she was on lead! Oh well will try again and see what happens........

I know it's a bit tough with bigger dogs - Casper's 45kg so it's a bit of a jolt on the end of a longline if he darts off but I try to be a bit more aware of how much line he has and his body language so I can call him to me and shorten the line when he looks a bit too excitable. Another option is to have a lighter longline with no handle at the end (so it doesn't get caught in anything) but with knots tied at several places down the line, and let this trail behind Jack. That way you can let him run loose but if you need to get hold of them then you can grab the line, so you still retain a bit of control at a distance.
Even if you could maybe find someone to walk with locally who has a calm dog you can walk next to, with both dogs on-lead, to teach Jack that walks aren't all about zooming around jumping on dogs. This is what we started doing with Amanda's dog Cain - he wasn't socialised well as a puppy so he tries to play with dogs too roughly. We started meeting him having him walk with Kiki, they wouldn't interact loads but it taught Cain that calm walks can be enjoyed with other dogs without the need to keep jumping on them (and Kiki would tell Cain off when he forgot his manners). Once Cain started to behave around Kiki, my other dog joined us. Casper is a bit similar to Cain so we weren't sure how they'd interact, but we adopted similar rules for Casper, on-lead until calm, then on a longline for more control. Our last couple of walks, Casper has been loose trailing a longline and there's only been the odd incident of him forgetting himself but they're improving every time. Even just keeping Jack onlead initially will at least prevent him practising the bad behaviour and making it a habit.

Could you maybe try taking Jack out for a short walk to burn off some energy before you go out with the others too? And 5 minutes of training - making a dog use its brain is great for tiring them out. Then he might be a little less excitable when out with the others.

Thanks Krlyr I will try the short walk thing and let you know the end result!! Probably one exhausted stressed owner with 6ft long arms!!!!

Do you have anyone who'd help you walk the dogs? A friend who'll join you and walk the other two on lead so you can keep Jack at a little bit of a distance and get him used to walking next to them calmly? When I first got Casper, I couldn't walk him with Kiki as he'd constantly be trying to jump on her or mouth at her but thankfully my mum was happy to join us on walks holding Kiki so Casper couldn't do this, and it wasn't long before he calmed down enough for me to walk them together.