Can see it being fun with a suitable dog - for example I would never take the lodger - he has a learned distrust of adults and can be handshy/ fearful - while at the same time having the "Nice people are just great" look out.

I don't think it would do him any favours at all.

So I'd basically hope classes were very selective.

Training a dog to bite a sleeve doens't mean it's being traing to attack people. I am just starting out in ScH with my new dog now he's onthe mend properly. It's a sport for botht he dog and handler. thedogs see it as a game. Firstly they are trained with food then move onto the ball (+ rope). Only once the tracking and obedience elements are completed after having passed the BH (temperament test) can a dog move onto full bitework.

Its fun for the dog. The reward is that they get to gait about with the sleeve in their mouth. It doesn't mean that they're likely to attack someone in the street, even if the handler or owner was threatened in some way.

A very important part of this training is he "out" or "aus" command so that the dog releases. You don't have to train a dog to bite - they can all do that and no doubt would do in certain circumstances. but to have enough control to command a dog to release and for the dog to do so immediately goes a long way to demonstrating (IMHO) the level of trust between the dog and handler.

A fully grown GSD clamped onto a sleeve after running full pelt up the field is an awesome sight. But that same dog may possibly hide behind it's owners legs if faced with a difficult situation out in public.

Training for PP is very different from SchH, WT etc.

My GSD is PP trained, I can assure you, its not like walking around with a lethal weapon.
She is friendly and will accept a fuss/stroke off anyone that wants to (especially children )
I could get into an argument with someone with her by my side and she would not just bite someone of her own will.

I think a well trained, responsibly handled PP trained dog is absolutely fine, its when poor handlers with little knowledge train their dog of substandard temperament that you should worry.

If you wanted to, could you tell her to 'bite' (or anything else PP related)?

My point isn't that the dog would do it free-will (although mistakes also have to be taken into consideration), it's that the handler might command the dog too. Just like someone might 'use' a knife or gun.

But I have knives at home, does not mean I will take one out to cause anyone any harm, there are people who have guns that don't go out a and shoot people.

To say that owning a PP dog is like going around with a loaded weapon is seriously taking things a but far, don't you think?

If someone is bad through and through and wants to cause hurt, then they will they could use a knife, bat, gun, glass bottle, dog, bare hands....but we can't say everyone with a bat, bottle, dog, kitchen knife, or hands wouldnt do so just in case they happen to be a

Continued (on fn)
Bad Person we better cut off their hands, ban glass bottles, kitchen knives....

Hope between 2 posts that made some sense

Yes, If I told her to "bite" (thats not the command I use) then she would do as I asked- no hesitation.
I didnt train her in PP so that I could get her to bite anyone, I trained it because its fun, its a hobby, it gives me personal satisfaction training a dog to do different things.
I don't see it as dangerous, she has never bitten anyone when told to in a live and real situation, though it does give me a little extra confidence knowing that if it came down to it then she would protect me...though I find the "speak" command keeps any untowards at bay

To your last point- I could just as easily use my car to run someone over if I wanted to - they are the most lethal weapon of all.

edit: There is also a huge difference in training your dog properly in personal protection and just training your pet dog to bite on command.

But it's illegal to carry knives

I'm not on about the good guys - just like good guys could carry knives and wouldn't use them on others. It's just the idiots.

I don't support the ban of PP type training, just wanted to raise a discussion around it to see if some elements of it were worrying others too.

My ex-partner's police dogs were trained to a high standard which obviously also included bitework. One of his males was a specialist firearms support dog. You couldn't meet safer or more stable dogs.

Funnily enough, I was watching It's me Or The Dog USA on Pick TV on Friday (I think - may have been Thurs).

Victoria visited some people who lived in a huge mansion and had a bulldog, a Boston and a Presa Canario puppy.

They had been thinking of training the Presa to do PP but she took them to a training establishment where she showed them a fully trained Presa doing bitework, and managed to persuade them that it would be a dangerous thing to do. I feel she realised they were so hopeless at training their dogs to do basic things, trying PP with the Presa puppy would be suicide.