Er NO, I was refering to the gentle leader,

If that makes sense

And no one can argue with that, but calm to me means just that, calm and responsive. Submissive in this context is used as opposed to dominant, in other words the dog submits to your will, obeys your commands willingly. It's all in the intrepretation.

I know! I'm so chuffed when he walks past just one dog without barking

My dogs do both of these - maybe they are schizophrenic

Seriously though, I think there's a time to be calm and a time to be excited and there's nothing wrong with that. I love to see my dogs running around and playing and doing zoomies, but I don't want them doing that 24/7.

They wag their tails a lot though - even when they're lying down and relaxed, usually if I smile at them

All these CM threads just come down to semantics in the end. I think we've all said the same things over and over again and I always come to the conclusion that we are all more or less singing from the same hymn sheet, just using different words.

My dogs are looking a bit too calm and submissive now so I'm going to take them for a walk. Ta ta

I was referring to the calming band used in TTOUch, the part around the muzzle is in the same place on a gentle leader.The collar part is high on the neck on a gentle leader, but that isn't the part that you lead the dog by...infact there is nowhere to put a lead on that part, the lead is put on the side bit by the muzzle and then if you have a double ended one, on the dog's usual collar, the power steering comes from guiding the face.
If a gentle leader is introduced properly the dog shouldn't spend all it's time getting it off, aftyer the first few mins, it will do that if people plonk it straight on with no prep.

Actually we were talking about the gentle leader as I never mentioned the TTouch thing at all. The collar part is indeed high up on the neck and if you read the instructions it says that part is to calm the dog blah blah. no you're right you don't attach the lead to it, the lead is attached under the chin. No matter how it's introduced in my experience all my dogs have hated the part that goes around the face and at no point could it ever be described as calming. like I said they hate it with a vengence, they will tolerate because they do as they are told, but certainly not from choice, and it was most certainly never just plonked on their face.

I think he is class
D

hey guys ,id like to comment on these collars, high on the neck is best for training.it is more sensitive and the dog will pull as much as they can handle ,it will cut off there supply and they will submitt some times ..iv got an amstaff that would pass out before he gave up.its up to him...if he is in the REDzone it can be dangerious.training only for him.hes good now that he undrstands there is no other option than to comply..its that simple,as far a Ceasar...he gets back to bacics with dog that most dont like because we feel owr dogs are like our kids...there dogs and should be treated as such....pinning a dog to the floor is good if the dog knows you are alph.in the wild most would chalange a pin.and that why they sat ,,,CONSULT A PRO BEFORE ATTEMTING....there was a post here where some one was attact? put a dog down becase it went bad....i would not suggest a pin,if there was no ground work before the pin,if you want to be alpha you better be prepared to be challanged.my dogos and amstaff know how is boss and it was not overnight.....i cant afford to be number two....get back to basics of the pack, start there...phil