Phenobarbital - questions

Loki has started taking phanobarbital but isn't doing very well at the moment so I wanted to ask a couple of questions.

If your dog is on phenobarbital, how did they get on with it when they first started taking it? Did they whine, cry and pace around and if so, for how many days/weeks?

Did you have to give the medication at exactly the same time morning and night or were you able to fluctuate by an hour or so?

Thanks.

The Pb did not really seem to have much effect when Pereg first started on it, but that was only two days after she had had two GMs within the space of a few hours, so was still rather post-ictal and I would not have noticed anything different.

To start with I stuck to the 12 hours in between each dose, although I was a bit late a couple of times when I did not hear the medication alarm. Then when the Pb was increased I started it earlier [due to early morning seizures] and delayed the second dose by two hours, so she went 14 hours during the day/evening before the second dose, and then 10 hours before the next morning's dose.

Now she has it TID so I stick rigidly to the 8 hours between each dose.

The only times she has paced about, crashing into things, whined, cried, reached out to grab my arm, tried to bite my chair etc is when she is post-ictal - and that can last from anything from 2-3 hours to 2-3 three days, although lessening off as time goes by. But those are the times when she is so desperately ravenous. At least her brain seems to be telling her she is hungry when she really cannot be.

She will slump down, totally exhausted, but the slightest movement from me and she is up again until I want to just scream at her to shut up.

After the last terrible lot of episodes Ram said to give her 10mg oral Valium if she is bad post-ictal.

I am sorry I cannot be any more help but no epis react exactly the same to the same medication.

More gentle hugs for Loki and bigger ones for you. xxx

Hi Linda, it's been a while since he started it now, but from memory he was a bit out of sorts for a few days but then went back to normal.

I don't think he paced around though (not unless it was straight after a fit) so it might be worth checking with the vet if that is sometimes a side effect. How long does he normally pace around for after a fit?

Have you stopped any other treatment? Could it be that this is related to him coming off that if so?

How is his behaviour different to his normal behaviour, and to his post fitting behaviour?

I think it usually takes a few weeks to get it into the system, so his symptoms might not be related to the PB as he's only just started on it.

Re dosage, it doesn't have to be exact if they are getting a little more than required (as in Rocky's case). Some days I have noticed a tablet on the floor that he's spat out without me seeing (!) and he's been fine, but again I think that's because he's on a dosage that is above the normal levels. However in humans I think it has to be more exact, as the dosage is as low as they can make.

2-3 weeks IIRC - which explained why Pereg had another two GMs ten hours apart just 12 days after starting on the Pb. That is why her dosage was first increased.

Hi - thanks for the replies. No, nothing's changed. Only Loki and it's just awful. This is worse than any post-ictal phase. It's like being post-ictal x 20. He can barely get up; he just lies there whining and crying without pause and when he is up, he falls about drunkenly. Then he sleeps for about 10 minutes before it starts again.

This is what happened when we tried the PB before, which is why we decided not to go down that route. His quality of life is dreadful and so is ours. I haven't been able to spend proper time with the children and I can't leave the house.

I think we'll have to talk to the vet again tomorrow because we can't go on like this.

No reaction at all and I do fluctuate by a couple of hours sometimes. Mornings 8/9 ish evenings 10/11ish.

I did try and use it to sedate a dog once (long story!) and he became very hyperactive on it.

I know with the kids I taught reactions vary enormously from person to person and I would imagine it is the same with dogs.

rune

From memory (which may not be exact) I think I was told to give it a fortnight if he reacted.

rune

Thanks Rune.

Linda, just a thought - did you say Loki is on Kbr? Because the combination of Pb and Kbr can cause the ataxia Loki is experiencing, which is why Ram is holding off giving it to Pereg if we can keep her seizures reasonably under control with just the Pb - his idea of "reasonably under control" is not more than one GM every two weeks.

There are other side effects of giving both drugs but he and I have not discussed those yet, but if Loki is also on Kbr then that could explain the ataxia and the terrible post-ictal type behaviour.

From my understanding the drowsiness is normal for the first few days at least.

How long did you try PB for last time and at what dose?

I hope it's just a matter of his system getting used to it - hopefully the vet will be able to give more info, but drowsiness is definitely what we were told to expect. of course it's hard judging not seeing him, but I would probably stick with it if it was Rocky and give it a chance - at least that way I'd know we tried it enough to work as they say it might.

*hug*