Oops, I see I've repeated some of Mys's already good advice. Sorry

And she puts it so much more concisely than me too!

Hi

It was my girl, who gained weight on raw.

But it was my fault. I fed her way too much.

Luna is now on a diet. I feed her 400 grams, which is about 1.5% of her ideal weight (26 kg).

Luna is a labrador and it seems she gains weight by just looking at food.

thanks everyone for your advice re raw feeding. i am going to use the rest of the kibble i have left (prob a weeks worth), then onto raw we go! the mince i buy is from the butchers and doesn't have any cereal added. so if my girl should weigh 20k i should be feeding her approx 300gms of raw food? or is it a combination of everything? ie. veg, fruit etc? seems alot compared with what she has at the mo! but i suppose the dry food is more concentrated anyway isn't it? my boy is 17k, but he has no fat on him whatsoever, so maybe he could be fed at 2.5%? which would work out at approx 400gm? i will have to invest in a pair of scales methinks! thanks again everyone xx

You can't really compare the weight of kibble to raw meat and bones etc, once given to your dog you will see 300g of raw food isn't much at all.

My boy used to get errr about 450g of kibble a day and he is on 1000g of raw but when put in front of him it doesn't look like this huge amount.

The 300g in weight of the raw food may weigh more than the kibble but you will see they utilize so much more, when my dogs went on raw I had about a quarter amount of poop to pick up, that alone tells you just how much waste you get from kibble, how much of it is just fillers. Basically on kibble all you are feeding them is some vitamin pills and some cereals that they don't need, to put bulk in their stomach. Vitamin pills or similar don't weigh much do they, they are just powder...lol...Look at a one a day vitamin that contains all the vitamins you need then look at the food you would eat to naturally obtain those vitamins, doesn't weigh the same does it Not forgetting that kibble swells up to twice it's size in the gut (drop some in water and you will see) then it just sits heavy for ages and ages while it takes along time for the body to try to digest this 'food' that it was not designed to deal with.

If your boy has no fat on him what so ever and he isn't prone to putting weight on 2.5% of his body weight as it is now will be fine.

See how they do and adjust from there

People deal with veg and fruit differently. Some include them in the amount of the total diet. Some feed at about 10% of the diet, other people advocate alot more than that.

I don't think veg and fruit should be any more than 10% of the diet. Think of the stomach contents of prey and how that amount compares with the rest of the animal and make your portions accordingly. That is all you are trying to do here, replicate the body of a prey animal.

Studies have been done that actually show that wolves prefer to shake the stomach contents out of the stomach before eating.

Everybodies opinion varies.

Myself, fruit and veg do not make up part of their diet if they get any I add it on as an extra. My dogs also get the water from any cooked veg etc also to obtain some of their goodness. I would never take away the meat part of the diet to replace with large amounts of veg though because it isn't what they would naturally eat.

That's up to you to make up your own mind on that

Just regarding the rmb amounts...The amount of rmb should never be set in stone. I.E. 50 or 60% etc. All rmb's vary, some contain more meat, others contain much less and are more boney. Unless you are only feeding one type of rmb you can't set that figure in stone.

Try searching for 'britbarf' they explained it all perfectly to me there.

It'll get easier and make more sense once you start feeding it.

Hi Springergirl, if you decide to feed raw you won't go far wrong with the diet i list below..
First of all what i will say is the diet i am about to list suits my dogs but that is not to say that what everyone else feeds is wrong. You will find a lot of people that feed a quality cereal mixer like Natural Choice WholeBake or Laughing Dog as 1/3rd of the daily diet in the morning with the other 2/3rd being meat,tripe etc fed in the evening. I have fed this diet myself but found it to produce more waste and in my opinion the cereal is not required in the diet.

The ingredients i feed are.....

Minced Green Tripe [Unwashed tripe]
Minced Lanb [includes meat and bone]
Minced Chicken [mostly carcass]
Minced Tripe and Meat [ green tripe and trim of beef]
Chicken and Tripe mix [Chicken carcass and green tripe]
Chicken wings
Lamb bones
Lambs Liver
Hearts
Tin sardines in either sunflower or olive oil.

Raw pulped veg which consists of carrot, cabbage, brocolli, spinach, parsley, sprouts, parsnip, swede and celery.

Supplements which include fish oil capsules,evening primrose oil capsules and from Dorwest Herbs i buy Keepers Mix which contains kelp, celery seeds, lucerne, nettles, rosemary, psyillium husks, clivers and wild yam and also garlic and fenugreek tablets.

With what i have listed you have covered the full spectrum of vitamins, nutrients, minerals etc.
I will list what i feed on a average week to one of my dogs who is very active and she is 26 months old and weighs approx 27KG...

DAY ONE.
Breakfast...1/2lb of minced chicken, 1 x 1000mg fish oil capsule
Tea...1lb tripe, 1/4lb veg, teaspoon of keepers mix, 1 x 1000mg evening primrose oil capsule, 3 garlic and fenugreek tabs.

DAY TWO.
Breakfast...1/2lb of minced chicken, 1 x fish oil cap.
Tea...1lb tripe, 1/4lb veg, keepers mix,1 x EPO cap, 3 x G/F tabs.

DAY THREE.
Breakfast...1/2 lb of minced chicken, 1 x fish oil cap
Tea...1lb tripe and meat mix, 1/4lb veg, keepers mix, 1 x EPO cap, 3 x G/F tabs

DAY FOUR.
Breakfast..1/2 lb of minced chicken, 1 x fish oil cap
Tea...1lb chicken and tripe mix, 1/4lb veg, keepers mix, 1 x EPO cap, 3 x G/F tabs

DAY FIVE.
Breakfast...1/2lb minced chicken, 1 x fish oil cap
Tea...1lb tripe, 1/4lb veg, keepers mix, 1 x EPO cap, 3 x G/F tabs

DAY SIX
Breakfast... 2 Tins of Sardines
Tea...1lb lamb, 1/4lb veg, keepers mix, 1x EPO cap, 3 x G/F tabs

DAY SEVEN
Breakfast...1/2 lb minced chicken, 1 x fish oil cap.
Tea...1/2 lb lamb, 1/2 lb of lambs liver, keepers mix, 1 x EPO cap, 3 x G/F tabs.

The veg is a bit less than 1/4lb as i split 8 ounces and give approx 5 ounces to my larger dog and 3 ounces to this one.

I feed their breakfast at about 6.45 AM and tea at around 5PM.
On the second week i would perhaps swap the minced chicken for a few wings say one day and the tripe for breast of lamb plus throw in a few hearts.
I dont bother with a fast day but if a dog has agilty classes say on day one in the evening i miss a feed out at tea time so she is exercised on a empty stomach.Not everyone gives the supplements as it is argued whether they are needed but i swear by the keepers mix.
They do not get any treats apart from liver cake [baked with organic oats rather than self raising flour] as training treats and lamb bones now and again plus knuckle bones for recreational purposes.
It may sound a bit complicated to keep to but it is really easy and especially as i am feeding 2 dogs the same. All you have to remember is that you are looking to give a balanced diet over a period of time not everyday. I prefer to give the minced chicken carcass than whole purely for the reason my larger dog just inhales them without chewing and when minced it lasts longer.
I hope this helps to give you some idea what to feed and if you notice i feed the chicken most days as this supplies the bone content of most of the diet.
The dogs waste is always firm when fed like this so never any anal gland problems and they are full of energy.Here's a photo of Dora my Dorset Olde Tyme Bulldogge and as you can see she is in pretty good shape and i don't think you will find that many bulldogs able to walk like this lol...Cheers...Ian..
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...120_2055_1.jpg

Ian where is it that you are getting your tripe from?...We get 'green tripe' from a place but they say it is washed (but not bleached of course). Where can you get unwashed green tripe from?

Thanks

Hi Mys, who are you getting it from now?.....Cheers...Ian..

http://www.mincedtripe.co.uk/ from there

Hi Mys , i have tried to send you a PM but you need to make room in your storage space....Cheers..Ian..

Thanks, I have made space now if you would like to try again