When I was growing up it was considered quite acceptable for dogs to be allowed out on their own. (Heaven for me, who wasn't allowed a dog - I could just go out to play and meet all the local mutts).

And, like the Cyprus dogs, I never ever saw a dog fight. Very rarely a bit of hackles raised and stiff-walking past, but no proper fights. All mongrels, I seem to remember, apart from one corgi.

Exactly how it was in East London where I was born and raised. Nearly all dogs were mongrels and all just kicked out of the house to roam all day and let back in at night. The cats would doss about all day and then get put out at night! It was ... "bring in the dog and put out the cat" lol!

Tangutica.

You have made me feel better. As you know I started the GSD with one problem dog thread about my dog Nancy and the Goldie she dislikes.

Since the incident on Monday and following some of the comments made I haven't allowed Nancy off her lead or to interact with any dogs at all. I decided that I must ne one of those Numpty big dog owners and being a responsible owner and not wanting Nancy to get hurt or be hurt or get a reputation then she would no longer have any contact with other dogs

As I said Nancy is very very sociable with every other dog she meets. My dog walker is convinced it is either teh other dog or its owners that are part of the problem.

This is Nancy

Morning Nancypants. Well I'm just exploring ideas really - it's a shame to make lifelong changes to your dog's life if your dog is not the problem. On the other hand, when you have a big and powerful dog with the potential to cause real damage to others I can understand you erring on the side of caution.

But to be honest (apart from avoiding the dog involved in that one incident like the plague) I don't think I'd 'never trust my dog' again after just one unfortunate incident. But it would definitely be slowly, slowly and see how it goes with no chance of things getting out of hand.

I owned GSDs for many years. My last one, old Sal, was loved by all and I still miss her. I can't say she wouldn't hurt a flea because she did one time chase, catch and kill a cat. But that was the only incident of the kind in all her 11 years. However, I still NEVER EVER let her run loose in the house when mates with young children were visiting. (She'd grown up with my two boys and I'd stake my life she'd never harm them). They'd remonstrate with me (all loving my dog) insisting she would never hurt them and why put her outside?

Why? Better safe than sorry. I can't know in advance what anyone else's toddler will do. I can't watch too many young kids at one time. And am a believer in 'you never know what will sometimes spook a dog'. Now with a very small dog that's not a big risk but with a big dog it could be 'too late by the time it happened'.

Even with Bella who loves all children, I will not allow kids I don't trust to approach her and never ever allow anyone to 'tease' her. I'm confident how she will react to people of all ages if THEY behave themselves. I've not really any idea how she would react to some kid yanking on her rear end or trying to hoik her up under her arms or just poking and prodding her because she's never had any of those things done to her. So how could I know with certainty she won't react badly? I ain't about to start mistreating my dog to see if she becomes aggressive when tormented!

With your dog as you are obviously so concerned about it - it could be that your dog is picking up on your tension too. I will have to go see your thread again to remind me what happened.

Tangutica,

I am confident Nancy won't start a fight unless seriously provoked (maybe with the Goldie exception). What I am trying to avoid is being seen has having a vicious dog when in reality she is anything but.

Unfortunately too many people have preconceived ideas about GSDs long before they meet them or get to know them. This attitude in itself can cause problems when these owners meet these dogs

OK Nancy I just had another look at your thread. The thread I have started here is about ONE DOG that various OTHER DOGS have all attacked over the past few years or so.

You are talking about something different. Your ONE DOG that has had a go at quite a few other dogs in quite a short space of time if it is only 20 odd months old now.

Over the course of that thread you've said:

(first, about the dog in the latest incident)
You also said:
I have 3 comments to make about that statement.
1. How do you define 'normal reaction'? Are you just meaning that there are more dogs she doesn't become aggressive towards than there are those she does? Because it does sound as if your dog has been involved in quite a lot of 'incidents' bearing in mind her young age.

2. What do you mean when you say 'dominant dog'? In what way 'dominant' to yours? Bigger? Noisier? Appeared to SCARE your dog? Attacked your dog? (I don't think it would be that or you'd have said so)

3. What do you mean exactly when you say she 'defended herself'? Barked back? Lunged and appeared that she would attack if you let the lead go? What?

My advice with your dog would still be not to let it off lead where it might meet any of the dogs it has already been involved in scraps and altercations with. And in fact not to let it off the lead among other dogs until you are confident that it will not just take a dislike to one at random and hurtle off to it to have a go. Until you've done a lot more training and got to know it and how it reacts or better still sought the advice of a behaviourist.

Obviously you love your dog and you don't want to be thinking that it is your dog that is the problem. But ask yourself - in comparison to how many times your dog has caused a problem - how many times has yours been attacked without warning?

You've got yourself a dog that a lot of folk are 'scared of' and associate with attack dogs etc. You will have to work double hard to make sure it is well trained and reliable because at the moment it sounds to me as if it is totally unpredictable in its behaviour and you must be taking it out just praying and hoping that you don't run into any of its previous 'victims' (that's how their owners will see them!) or any other dog that it takes a dislike to!

*would just like to add that although you obviously feel bad about keeping your dog on a lead at all times, I don't think your dog will suffer from this. In fact many dogs are never exercised off or allowed off lead at all anywhere - especially if they live in town. Your dog is happy in your company and is happy to be taken out and walked and exercised whether on or off lead. It won't 'suffer' for not being allowed to run free.

Just your own desire to see your dog 'happily running free and having fun' with all the other dogs that are off lead in public places is not really a good enough reason to 'take chances' with it. Not until you are fully confident that it will behave itself and not suddenly take off.

Tangutica,

Again apologises for the long post.

Firstly the 3 incidents Nancy have been involved with are:
1. An American Boxer that jumped right on top of Nancy while they were playing and pinned her to the ground. Nancy didn't like it and reacted to free herself. Its owner said it was their dog's fault as he could get too boisterous. Afterwards both dogs where OK with each other.
2. Another lab who my dog walker was walking together with Nancy. He threw a ball and both dogs went for the ball from opposite directions and met head to head. Lots of snarling and growling no harm done to either dog. Again they went on to continue playing happily.
3 Can't remember the breed. Nancy went over to say hello and the dog snapped at her and she responded. Can't remember whether both dogs off lead or not.

I consider dominant to be where when Nancy approaches a dog when both are off lead and the other dog snarls and intimadates Nancy. Her reaction is to submit by croaching ears back and to then come away.

While Nancy does bark and lunge on the lead her behaviour towards this dog off the lead is considered by everyone that knows her to be totally out of character. Nancy is not a nasty dog.

Nancy is only ever allowed off lead when in a safe place, never near roads, farm animals, kids playing. She doesn't chase runners, joggers or cyclists on or off the lead, She likes to greet people when on her lead but ignors them when off lead. She likes to greet other dogs off lead and will with this exception either play with them if they want to play, go and have a walk and explore with them or if they showno interest leave them alone and come away with me.

I walk Nancy in our local park at a time when other dog owners who like their dogs to ineract with other dogs off lead are out and before owner who prefer to keep their dogs on leads usually walk their dogs.

I know Nancy won't "suffer" by being walked on lead and I know this is a very important part of her training. She is only 22 months and so still a puppy. However dogs are pack animals and the sheer enjoyment they get from playing with other dogs is wonderful to watch and they learn so much more from other dogs then they do from us.

I don't want any dog to be hurt by another dog and true dog fights are unusual. Dogs normally manage to sort out their pecking order without it developing into a serious fight.

Yes GSDs are a breed that a lot of people are scared of. However, this will never change while people are unwilling to get to know them and allow them to interact with their smaller dogs.

Maybe the problems with dogs that are repeatedly attacked is partly to do with the owners? I have met so many owners whose first words are "my dog doesn't like big dogs" only to watch as their dog then promptly starts a game of chase with Nancy! Sometimes owners can cause problems too.

I have no intention of going out of my way to meet the dog Nancy doesn't like. However, I will be addressing her behaviour on the lead which could be a protection issue and therefore my fault.

I hope that dog doesn't keep om being attacked, however maybe seeing if it still happens when someone else walks the dog might give a clue as to whether it is owner driven or somehing else. Just an idea.

Hello again. Don't apologise for long posts. I'm probly the most long-winded old bat on the forum!

Few things occur to me. My own dogs absolute ADORED running free with lots of other dogs when they were younger. In almost all cases (but especially with Bella my minpin) once they became 'adult' (in her case when she was 2 yrs+) she changed noticeably and much preferred the company of me and or other adults and didn't display as much interest in running around with the other dogs. She will mill about with them now but never run off or follow one that has decided to explore. And often, after about 10 mins or so she will gravitate back to me and stick to me, getting up only to greet newcomers or other owners who call her over. My boarding kennel owners (who have vast experience of animals and not just dogs - the son is in the Antipodes right now doing a study on reptiles) said they had noticed this marked change in Bella and it was a sign that she had 'grown up'. She no longer wanted to run around with all the other dogs in free association time when with them. She'd go over and sniff them and greet them but come back to the handlers. And where she used to like ALL the dogs she would have just one or maybe two that were obviously 'her favourites' now.

That's the same here - she favours Mara (who now lives next door to us but only from about 6months ago) and funnily enough although they interact when out with the others - no more than with the other dogs but, as soon as we both get back to our apartment block that has a huge parking area they both always immediately start a super mad crazy round and round racing lunatic carry on together! They do it even if exhausted from walking in the heat! It's so funny and the owner of Mara decided to join in one night recently and sort of whooped and galloped off and promptly fell (the dogs tripped her!) landed on her elbow and cracked it! lol!

And, although Mara is her 'best doggy pal' she is not interested in having her in OUR HOME. She looks quite put out actually! Gets possessive of her treats and toys and will mooch off to my bedroom away from her! Now when she was still young she loved to have her doggy pal visit or go to visit him and they'd ignore us people and just chase around and play together all the time. Again a change in her behaviour since she grew up. I find dogs very interesting. I wish they could TALK! I'd talk to them all day! (Well I do actually but it's a bit one sided!)

Nowt you can do about people being wary of GSDs same as they are of Staffies and other breeds. You can't change the way other people behave - you can only change the way you behave and the way you react to how they behave.

Your dog hasn't actually injured or maimed any other dog or person yet. You haven't been prosecuted for anything! So it's not that big a deal.

Just that with a big strong dog you will unfortunately always have to take a bit more care and trouble to make sure your dog doesn't 'get a bad name' or end up in a more serious fight - because if your dog is off lead and the other dog is on a lead YOUR dog will be held to blame.

I would not get fixated on being able to have your dog run free off lead until you are more or less super confident that she will do as told to do. You need to be able to STOP or DROP her at a command if she decides to hare off at a tangent because she's spotted something that triggered her. If you can't train her reasonably reliably to do that you are always going to be taking a chance that no dog she 'takes a dislike' to or none of those you know she already doesn't like comes round the corner before you can get hold of her.

I've had dogs I thought I'd NEVER be able to allow off lead but they got there in the end even if it took more than a year of training a recall. There is a wealth of info on this site about how to do that. Wish I'd been aware of some of it back then! I sometimes used to think I would not be able to go get my daughter from school if I couldn't get my dog to come back to me by about 3pm when down on Newlyn Beach lol!

Not attacked as such, but my sister's little dog often gets targeted by other dogs who either chase him ( and in turn scare him senseless ), playing really rough with him and ignoring his yips of discomfort, and/or they try and hump/push him around.

His body language is, from what I've been told, in between being playful and wanting to approach, and acting scared. I think his nervous energy makes him an easy target.

My own two OTOH, have thankfully *touch wood* never been attacked ( even though I have a DA dog myself ) and in the case of my Lurcher boy, he's had very, very few negative encounters with dogs in general.