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Location: Manchester
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 320
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11-03-2011, 05:09 PM
Originally Posted by 3dognight 
positive methods are fine, and i do believe, all said ,here is true and i do agree.but....there is a time for a hard hand to deal with problems, rather than a soft aproch and i feel its about the situation and the dog envolved, my dogs are very confident and powerfull, there are some issues that needed a hard hand to deal with them, never abuse just a no b/s attatude, if mine are at 100% i have to be at 110%!.i do my best to correct a dog as naturally as possible , if i have to use mild force i will and do, there not shy of me there not scared ,but they do think twice before the attemp again.I have got a balance group/pack/social group,what ever you whant to call it.Pits and dogos do not do well with yelling at them, they shut down.i use touch to curb there bad behavior. i have to put them to the ground when thet are dis respecting me or others , i use a hand at the neck if needed , and i actually bit a pup on the snout who had aggressive issues, bad blood lines , the dog lived for 12 years ,never bit agian?Im not so sure what to call that ,but it worked.just an other angle. respectfully .phil
Also this post was aimed at why positive works and why punishment doesnt. Not only that but it was with my classes in mind, which are for training purposes, not behavioural issues, aversives, no matter what the reason have NO place in my classes
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Location: Manchester
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 320
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11-03-2011, 05:10 PM
Originally Posted by Dobermann
- Positive reinforcement works by allowing the dog to learn what is 'right' rather than constantly 'correcting' the dog and leaving them with no clue about what you actually want. This helps make the whole process easier for you as a person and the dog too.
- positive reinforcement allows the dog to gain confidence as they learn - bit like a game of hot and cold, you are telling them evry time they get 'hotter' and not just 'cold, cold, cold' Get it?
- Punishing the dog for the wrong thing isnt actually telling the dog what you want from them, this is where reward based training helps dogs to understand quicker and more safely what it is thats expected of them, rewarding the dog the moment they get it right helps them to retain that information, making their training more reliable in the longer term
No idea if thats any good, but written by Joe Bloggs!
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Location: Ovingham,UK
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 270
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11-03-2011, 06:26 PM
Negative punishments are the e collar/stick/rubbing noses.
there are still punishments available when training.
Voice/No
Taking something away is the punishment.
Turn your back/ignore.
Put the toy away , stop the game.
Not sure of the term possibly positive punishments.
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Location: UK
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,723
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11-03-2011, 06:36 PM
Originally Posted by kobi
Firstly I agree with + treatments and I may use some wrong terminology here.
Negative punishments are the e collar/stick/rubbing noses.
there are still punishments available when training.
Voice/No
Taking something away is the punishment.
Turn your back/ignore.
Put the toy away , stop the game.
Not sure of the term possibly positive punishments.
basically positive means add something - treat, praise, smack
negative means take something away - attention, removing toy - or in horrible training to take the pain away
reward - something that will make them do it afain
Punishment - something that will make them try and not do it again
so taking your attention away to stop them doing something is positive punishment
Many positive trainers will use positive reward and some negative punishment
(although I try and keep away from punishment wherever I can, sometimes a bit of ignoring is needed with a crazy puppy)
negative trainers will mainly use positive punishment - shocking, hitting, lease jerking, yelling
and negative reward - prongs stop jabbing in neck, shocks stop - and sometimes it can even be argued that if you are punishing the dog and you then stop punishing them to praise them then the praise is actually negative reward - they are just so happy to stop your yelling
I dont ever see the need for positive punishment
sometimes it happens, but I try and not use anything like that
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Location: Manchester
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 320
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