Yes. It is. It's why training the way you supposedly train is completely counterproductive to any sort of learning. Pain shuts down many dogs, mine included. Dogs cannot learn when they are in pain. So what you're doing is either shutting the dogs down or forcing them to work out of fear.

WHY ON EARTH DO YOU WANT TO DO THIS?

Are you truly so sadistic? I just cannot get it. Why would you want to cause such pain to another creature?


Bull excrement. You've worked with dogs who YOU have caused to shut down. Just look at your own dogs in those videos! It's horrible to watch and the fact that you apparently cannot see it is the worst thing of all. So I'm left with the conclusion that you are, indeed, just a sadistic jerk.

You based on your criteria. The dog learns that when he does X stim happens and when he does Y stim stops happening, he learns to control the stim like that.

It doesn't matter who is pressing the button ects.

Besides with your approach your choosing to reward the dog or not based on your own criteria, the difference is that the dog knows the reward or lack of is coming from you.

Adam

Ok guys how about we stop feeding Adam. I'm sorry I got sucked into it. He knows nothing and he, along with his stupid collars, should be banned from this site.

Yep, but I don't pretend that the dog is controlling my actions during the training session

E collars don't cause pain.

http://www.youtube.com/user/panzerto...65/Q5T7Lh6X1Ww

Dog being stimmed at top level on collar.

Adam

But it sort of is, if the dog does the right behaviour I assume you consitently reward it?

Therefore its controlling your actions.

Adam

so how do they work then o-sadistic-bully ?

Depends how far down the training route we are. Initially, continuous reward, but I'm sure you know that rates of reinforcement are put on various schedules so that behaviour isn't reliant on continuous reinforcement???

When training, I make the decisions. Perhaps that's why I've never felt the need to use physical aversions because I've never needed to use them

Discomfort v comfort.

This very much the same way all learning occurs. For example if you are hungry that is uncomfortable (mental discomfort) when you eat that is comfortable.

Another example, dog wants toy that human is holding (but knows he won't get unless recalled) that is mental discomfort, want but can't have. Dog returns to the human when they call him (telling him the toy is available) and gets toy reward, that is the mental discomfort relieved. At least until the next repitition.

Adam

That can be one of the issues with reward training a high drive dog, when you move onto variable reward the dog becomes slightly frustrated at the inconsitency which makes him try harder |(great for us) but can also have fall out.

With my methods its pretty clear and consitent, do the behaviour no discomfort. Of course I use rewards as well so fall into the same trap but because I don't depend on them as such we can keep the dog much lower intensity.

Adam