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Borderdawn
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28-12-2009, 01:47 PM
Originally Posted by Moobli View Post
Stunning photos Dawn. Where were they taken?
Thanks, they were taken at the British Wildlife Centre.

Originally Posted by Pidge View Post
Wow Dawn, they are beautiful, well done you (winning your argument quite gracefully I see ;o)

I LOVE the yawning one, it's stunning and shows the fox looking so relaxed and simple.
Thanks Pidge.

Originally Posted by aliwin View Post
The only reason I think of foxhounds is because I have only ever lived in innercity Birmingham and this is how it is portrayed to us in the media. I just remember when the ban was coming in that was the topic that the many foxhounds would have to be pts as you can never home them in an ordinary household environment!

I genuinally believe it is in the dogs blood it is instinct. Dizzy is a foxhound x and I have never seen such a reaction as the first time she saw a fox. I have not trained her to be like this and she lives with all sorts of furries and cats etc but she wanted to chase that fox. It pulled me up on her capabilities and how her natural instinct took over.

I don't know enough about hunting to make a judgement either way but I can't say the idea sits comfortably with me.
I live near Birmingham, Walsall, so thats "inner City" too, however if you listen to false propaganda, you will believe whatever you want.
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Borderdawn
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28-12-2009, 01:52 PM
Originally Posted by lozzibear View Post
i know it happens, and it is sick and horrible. again, its a case of a dog serving his or her purpose, and then no longer being wanted. and just for the sake of ripping a poor animal to shreds, how lovely.
Rather that than being born, abused and PTS before they are a year old, as many many rescues are. There arent many rescues will take on old dogs let alone keep them to rehome! Thats "disposal" on a massive scale LB, you just need to look closer to see the bigger picture.


there are other ways of doing that, not just taking part in hunts.
How, Id be interested to hear this.


thats the point i am trying to make though, they might enjoy what they are doing but they dont understand what could happen to them, but we do. so i am not saying they think that way, i am saying they dont. so therefore, we shouldnt put them in those situations.
Again, anthropomorphizing LB. its not relevant to a dog. Do you feel the same about drugs and explosive sniffer dogs who may be blown to bits? or is it "different" because they serve us? Thay also have no "knowledge" of what may happen to them, but they love their work!
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Borderdawn
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28-12-2009, 01:56 PM
Originally Posted by lozzibear View Post
beautiful photos, but why did you pay £80 to take photos of foxes, who you think are vermin and deserve to be killed
Because its my choice, not yours! I dont need permission do I? I am a photographer, the place I visited conserve and breed very endangered British Wildlife such as Dormice, Red Squirrels, Scottish Wild Cats, European Otters and others. Id happily give money to support such causes.

I also never said they "deserve" to be killed, you are now trying to cause arguments. I said they need to be controlled and managed, if thats by hunting, Im happy with that, however you will never find me poisoning, trapping, snaring or gassing them like many people who are sick of the damage they do, will.
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tazer
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28-12-2009, 02:04 PM
Originally Posted by Borderdawn View Post
Ill tell you pidge, wont make it up, wont tell you lies. I love hunting. My mother hated it, father isnt bothered. When I was young I expressed an interest, my parents got me in touch with hunts to find out about it, no propaganda, no making things up. I went to meets, I enjoyed the atmosphere, the Horses, the Hounds and the general friendliness I was shown.

I havent ridden a Horse in many years, I follow on foot. Ive never ever seen a Fox caught by the Hounds, nor do I express a wish to do so, not many of the followers ever do. I love the chase, I love the pack, I love the hunt. I am satisfied that the Fox will be caught and killed almost instantly, if not it will be UNHARMED. If it goes to ground, it depends of the Farmers wishes as to whether its dug out and shot.

Ive seen Foxes mangled in snares, riddled with mange, hit by cars, shot but not killed, all of these leave the animal a long suffering death Id never wish on anything. Hunting is kill instantly or run free and unharmed.

Its not about the pink coats, thats just traditional wear, nobody moans about the Beefeaters, guards or the Queen in all her "traditional" wear do they? Thats all it is, a "uniform" nothing more, and of course there are no rules stating you have to wear it.

Its legal to shoot a Fox, and miss, and leave it to suffer for days if you cant find it. Its legal to snare a fox and for it to chew its leg off in a desperate attempt to escape, then die days later of massive infection and blood poisoning. Its legal for you to gas a Fox hole, and HOPE thats who is at home, they will suffer too, long extended periods of suffering before they finally die, along with anything else that may be there. Its also legal for you to poison the Fox, assuming of course thats who gets the poison, look how many dogs are poisoned, you can bet most of that was left for Foxes, but who is to tell the dog that?

So for me, hunting, is the safest and quickest method to reduce Fox numbers on land where Farmers want the numbers reduced. Supporting farmers and the countryside, keeping the Foxes in the Countryside healthy, not like the mange ridden things in towns, skeletal some of them and in obvious poor health.

Hope that helps a little.
Excilent post, well written and balanced.
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aliwin
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28-12-2009, 02:09 PM
Originally Posted by Borderdawn View Post
I live near Birmingham, Walsall, so thats "inner City" too, however if you listen to false propaganda, you will believe whatever you want.
Thats why I don't have an outright opinion on the subject because I realise that I don't have experience of the full picture. It only sits uncomfortabley with me as I don't eat meat and have issues with many other animal welfare topics. But all of these are my personal views and beliefs and just because I believe them I wouldn't expect anyone else to.

If you have experienced hunts first hand and are happy with the way they are run etc, I know you to be an animal lover so who am I to argue with you.
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Borderdawn
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28-12-2009, 03:40 PM
Originally Posted by aliwin View Post
Thats why I don't have an outright opinion on the subject because I realise that I don't have experience of the full picture. It only sits uncomfortabley with me as I don't eat meat and have issues with many other animal welfare topics. But all of these are my personal views and beliefs and just because I believe them I wouldn't expect anyone else to.

If you have experienced hunts first hand and are happy with the way they are run etc, I know you to be an animal lover so who am I to argue with you.
I understand your point, but there are a few "local" hunts, so if you ever want to visit them, let me know and Ill give you the meet info. I expect you will enjoy it.
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Borderdawn
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28-12-2009, 03:41 PM
Originally Posted by tazer View Post
Excilent post, well written and balanced.
Thanks Tazer.
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mishflynn
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28-12-2009, 03:46 PM
Not Really into Debating....... But some memories.

Boxing day Meet, Small girl on a Grey Swelsh Section A , refusing a Sausage roll, Because she was a Vegetarian!!!!!

Getting Absolutley Trollied on Master Jims home made wine Making it out of the gate, then just went home to drunk

Sitting on a road watching a fox go one way across the field & the hounds & the whippers in going the other

Lizzy rubbing her head so violently on my leg that she rubbed her bridle off!

Summer days at Country Fairs watching the Hounds do a parade & then all the kids move in for a stroke the hounds, then when they went back there was always this one hound a lemon & white with his head in someones Sarnies!!!!!

Summer Shows, Drunken Point to points, country Fairs, Hound & Terrier Shows, Xmas Balls etc etc, all to raise funds for the hunt & day to day countryside life & enjoyed by people who didnt even know that theyt were supporting the hunt

sitting on a skewbald cob in a farm yard when she backed up to the barn doors making a almighty clatter & scarying my friend so much she fell off.

watching the foxhounds faces as a stag ran through them one day, sheer confusion & suprise

trying to stop for a wee!!!!

seeing wild foxes on exmoor when out for a walk or a ride. & seeing them looking back at me!!!!!!

ive only been a handful of times, & although i enjoyed it , its not really for me, but i dont agree with the ban. If i dont want to go, despite the happy memories i wont go, but i certaininly wouldnt stop people that want to go from going,

Some sad Memories

Hearing that the antis had put Wires out for the dogs & Horses on the Hill next to mine.

the next year hearing that poision had been put down for the hounds

one boxing day meet, the antis shouting over a 85yrold master who was just trying to give his speech, a 85yrold man, who fought in the war & sells poppies each year .


coming out of the court in August (jury Service) & finding a mangey fox in the Park (Cardiff) & bringing him food each day for my two weeks jury service

seeing a fox in a sanctuary, too fat & looking completly bored rigid
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aliwin
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28-12-2009, 03:47 PM
Thanks, I will have to give that some thought It kind of goes against what I would normally think ok but I also firmly believe that you can't judge something unless you have first hand experience. Do you just follow on foot? As I don't have a horse or a 4x4 only an old style mini And do you take your dogs or do they have to be specially trained?
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Borderdawn
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28-12-2009, 03:59 PM
Originally Posted by aliwin View Post
Thanks, I will have to give that some thought It kind of goes against what I would normally think ok but I also firmly believe that you can't judge something unless you have first hand experience. Do you just follow on foot? As I don't have a horse or a 4x4 only an old style mini And do you take your dogs or do they have to be specially trained?
Your dogs will be welcome at the meet. You tend to know the countryside they cross and find viewing spots to follow the pack, its lovely to watch. We drive to various spots to watch.
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