The behaviourist at Wood Green uses them, but she stresses that they must be used like a hand, and not like some sort of weird stick at the end of the hand.

She uses pretend stooge dogs too (stuffed toy dogs) but again, there is an art to presenting them to a dog, same as the hand... Dogs are indeed so clever, you have to be sure you have "fooled" them, if you are going to use such props and indeed, esp. if they are part of an assessment.

I believe there are studies going on at Lincoln re the usefulness of stooge stuffed dogs.

It is quite hard to fool a dog

Wys
x

Yes, I think that one was after the Windsor one
IIRC wasn't he offered a home/rehab by AS and WG chose to put him to sleep instead? Due to his reaction to the tests. I'm glad i wasn't there to be honest

I often think of one dog she claimed was food guarding. I really do not want to know if there was any action afterwards, as it will haunt me.

I had the impression that she would have felt people were daft not to use them, seeing as she had all this experience and so on... she worked hard to defend them and I felt she was trying to convince she was right Which is why PN felt he had to put across the other viewpoint, I think.

Two very different impressions. I wonder if she altered her approach a bit during her visits? Could be.

Wys
x

I wonder if that the two impressions are down to the differing perspectives, skills, knowledge, training and experience of the delegates? Could be.

I still don`t see how poking a stressed dog with a stick - even if there is a glove on the end - is a test of anything except human gullibility.

It seems a real shame to put dogs to sleep for guarding food when it's a problem that's so easily managed and/or solved. I suppose it would come back on the shelter if they rehomed and somebody was bitten due to stupidity though

As to the rubber hand, I'm not really sure to be honest. When I've seen it used they've pushed and pushed and pushed with it until the dog has bitten it. That seems very unfair to me. If someone kept shoving a hand in my dinner while I was eating I'd get pretty p*ssed off too.

You see it a lot in Animal Planets US animal rescue programmes i recall one very placid emaciated starved dog - he had been found deserted & tied up & left to die, who had the most wonderful temperament & everyone had fell for
him. Been nursed back to health in the shelter. A gorgeous dog. Yet, he failed the rubber hand test & was PTS.

Yet in other shelters in the US they work with food aggressive dogs & turn them round. Ive did it myself.

To be fair i guess time & resources come into it too.

But that is the whole point of the test. Many dogs are rehomed to people who have no idea about what is appropriate behaviour, especially those with children, so this minimises returns.........

Was this Atlas? If so he was rather extreme in his food guarding (he bit 2 fingers off that rubber hand!) but then I'd have expected that of a dog who'd been starved. I'm sure in the right home he could have been managed and/or worked with so that he didn't feel the need to guard his food like that. I guess the problem is finding that home where nobody is ever going to do something stupid and end up badly bitten.

Oh I know it's the whole point. I just find it such a shame that dogs pay with their lives for human stupidity or ignorance.

Exactly!

Homes are hard to find, experienced homes able to deal with extreme behaviours are even harder..........