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Chris
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01-06-2011, 07:13 AM
Originally Posted by Wysiwyg View Post
If they are not prepared to join in with the non choke chain policy of a positive club, why are they even there in the first place? I don't get it.
and yet, no matter how big the letters or how much the point is raised prior to people attending a class, there will always be someone who thinks they know best. A couple that spring to mind for me is a 12 week old GSD who arrived wearing one because 'you can't train a GSD without on' and a rescue dog whose owner had previously seen a police dog handler who insisted they were the only way to train a dog not to pull.

Collars came off, harness in the case of the pup and flat collar in the case of the rescue went on and both dogs were effectively trained by their owners

I do fully agree though that there is no need whatsoever to embarrass or demoralise owners who, for whatever reason, want to test the rules of the club. Diplomacy and tact are two important attributes for effective dog trainers

People skills are indeed just as important as dog and training skills
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rueben
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01-06-2011, 09:13 AM
Originally Posted by Brierley View Post

People skills are indeed just as important as dog and training skills
Indeed it is---If you want people to take a positive view of what it is you want to get across.---Indeed it is.---Having knowledge in one's head is only part of the story having good people skills to communicate this knowledge is the complete picture.
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Velvetboxers
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01-06-2011, 04:03 PM
Originally Posted by rueben View Post
Indeed it is---If you want people to take a positive view of what it is you want to get across.---Indeed it is.---Having knowledge in one's head is only part of the story having good people skills to communicate this knowledge is the complete picture.
Well said, very good post
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Tass
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01-06-2011, 08:32 PM
Originally Posted by Wysiwyg View Post
Well, I have been taught by the person who was "got at" and she is not only a kind, knowledgeable person, but she is really good with people too. She happened to speak up in the dominance debate (she did not mention any names or attack any body) and got lambasted for it in a very personal and unpleasant manner. You either find that sort of behaviour acceptable or you don't - I don't

I think my previous post in this thread, and posts I have had elsewhere, makes it very clear that I don't agree with people being personally attacked, rather than rational debate of the methods they use, or the issue under discussion.

Shock collar trainers sometimes use praise and toys, but often I've seen them (on videos) just using the result of "no punishment" as the so called "reward"...

I thought that went out with Conrad Most! However videos do not always give the full picture unless in real time and totally unedited, maybe those you saw were, I don't know.

No-one is perfect and people can have off days, also some people might have more knowledge than others. From what I know of these people though, they are good with dogs and good with people.

It's interesting that you use the word "challenged" - if whoever it was asked about something in this way, a challenging way, rather than politely perhaps that was part of the problem... I'm a positive trainer, but I don't enjoy people being "challenging" to me, I'd rather they asked nicely

I advisedly used that word as my point was not how nice people can be with a sympathetic agreeable audience, but how they response to a less optimum reception.

It is not difficult to get on with people in agreement with you. It takes much better people skills to interact positively with someone who is more "challenging". Not every member of a family will necessarily welcome or be respectful, agreeable, polite or non challenging to a trainer or behaviourist, for all sorts of reasons so people skills under these circumstances are also important.




I'm also happy to admit when I am wrong or when I don't know the answer to something, as I find owners tend to trust you more if you are honest with them.


Wys
x
Absolutely, but that can include admitting that something that one disagrees with can be effective, albeit not always advisable, which comes back to my previous point about both sides of the "positive" argument being guilty, ime, of sticking more to the respective propaganda positions, than being truely honest at times, and about it being better to maintain lines of communication to enable progress forward.
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Tass
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01-06-2011, 08:35 PM
Originally Posted by Brierley View Post
I doubt that those adamantly pro aversives and those adamantly anti aversives will ever change their stance, but the discussions that take place do give both sides of the picture so provide others with food for thought
I think you are entirely right in all your points there.
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