First off all You're point about the clicker proves that not a single tool is good for all dogs.
So why ban a tool that, in my vue, is quiet innocent?

That made me chuckle

Wys
x

Good post there Topbarks and I agree very much with the last paragraph

Wys
x

When we're training and we train 1 dog at a time, often we have more than 200 years of dogtraining experience on the field

Any training method I have used has been endorsed by the charity I volunteer for. They know what I do and how I do it, I have a brilliant relationship with my own dog and have had excellent relationships with the foster dogs I've had.

So, thanks for the advice, but TBH I don't have any problems with training

I think the original point I was making is that time and time again I've seen it said on Dogsey 'People use (insert clicker, training disc, spray collar, check chain etc) wrong'. Yes, some people get it wrong. People get things wrong every day. It doesn't mean these things don't work or are not successful in some situations.

I would never use a shock collar. But I have used a spray collar. I would never use a check chain (just because I don't like them) but I wouldn't take it on myself to tell someone not to use one just because I don't like it.

I understand now why training discs are not a good idea in a class situation, but I still think they have their uses.

The Macho suggestion (I believe) has come from the idea that using methods such as e-collars is the only way to train these 'extreme' dogs.

As you have pointed out yourself...these methods are not nesercary....so why do people continue to use them...

Either they truely see nothing wrong with controlling a dog through electiric shocks or they do it becasue they are ignorant or closed minded to other methods.

I wasn't implying you did need help with your training or giving you any advice with regard to what methods you should or should not employ, I was just stating my point of view.
I think you have to work using methods that sit well with you personally as a trainer and that obviously differs amongst us.
The problem with any aversive is the potential for the dog to make links and associations other than what was intended.
I'm not saying aversives don't work but my worry is what happens when they don't? You have to look for another aversive to correct the behaviour.
Why not just train an alternative desireable response?
One of my lot kept licking plates in the dishwasher, my response was to teach him to lie down next to the dishwasher when the door was opened as the cue. I taught this once, reinforce it every time and have never needed to use an aversive which may or may not have worked to stop this behaviour.

hey just a sugesstion .

great thing to hear , it good when a dog moves forward.
positive reward is a great thing ,but be very carefull that you are not rewarding the fear, done incorectly this can happen.

Its hard to explain what i mean , but if a dog acts in fearfull manner rewarding that fear can result in excessive fear build up.

I would suggest to try and get you dog to work for the treat , by adding a slight mental stimuls to this technique , it will require you dog to actually interact with the men.
Rather than just recieving the treat.

You could get a man (if he has time to sit on floor) and place treat under hand ,letting your dog sniff treat out , and find treat encourging fun interaction.has to be done with a non confronational aproach , using both your body lanauge and positive reward .
Hope this makes good sense .
keep up the fabulous work

I'm wary about giving treats to people to give to a reactive dog to start with as I do not want to put the dog in a state of conflict where it wants the treat but is unsure about going to get it.
I have seen this make some dogs much worse as they can't deal with going towards the scary person.
I prefer for the handler to feed the dog really high value stuff and progress from there at the dogs pace.

not aimed at sarah as i am sure she knows what she is doing with the dog
but i have seen great results with teaching a dog to target something then return for a treat
for example an outstreached hand could be the cue for a nose target, so the dog only has to interact with the hand and not the whole person, and the people have to be told not to interact with the dog just let it target

having said that at the weekend i met a dog who was v people shy and had been taught by getting treats off strangers, it cuddled me to death, fear gone