See pages 16-17 entitled "Empty vessels make most noise"
by Patrick Burns.

Nickynockynoono:

That was a very interesting article you posted.

krlyr :

The article doesn't say the wolves go back and eat different bits of the carcase over time. It actually says that they don't eat every day and specifically states that therefore the differing faeces can result from the same kill, bearing in mind kills are not always available to be returned to after the first feed, nor is there necessarily anything left later after competitors and scavengers have visited the kill.

Hence why wolves are evolved to consume vast quantities in one go and to not need to eat ever day.

As has been said raptors can eat the flesh of their prey and excrete the nitrogenous waste from that via the cloaca, and also regurgitating a separate pellet of bone and fur or feather wrapped up together through the mouth.

I would suggest that the churning motions of the stomach and of peristalsis would help wrap bones in fur, as long as the animal were able to pass different fractions of the meal through it's digestive tract at different times.

Not too hard as different fractions would succumb to stomach acid at different rates and keratin and bone would be likely to take longer to digest that the softer meat and hence to be passed out later to some degree, so longer as the animal's digestion were evolved to deal with things that way, as with the raptor's separation system, when the pellet is typically produced 1-2 days after the meal was consumed.

Once this is fractional digestion is achieved the wrapping would be no problem. After all a problem with walking long haired dogs in areas of long grass or through undergrowth is the tendency of twigs, burrs, thorns and grass seeds etc to naturally (and annoyingly ) get wrapped in coat hair, becoming more and more tightly wrapped and covered with ever more fur as the dog moves, until unwound or combed/cut out. No origami required.

As for feeding dogs and wolves the same resulting in similar excretion, wolves on a commercial diet wouldn't have fur or hide available nor any bones to wrap it around and, as I have previously stated in this thread, not many people feeding a raw diet feed a prey model diet.

Not forgetting that many dogs do not even digest the same food similarly, hence my different dogs have had different foods to suit their different needs and different digestive abilities.

I've had different reactions with bone.
Chicken necks have caused fragments of bone to be regurgitated many hours later and colitis on more than one occasion so not a coincidence.

Turkey with minced bone added has also been a problem with only the minced bone fragments in a small amount of fluid being regurgitated not the meat also many hours later.

This proves that the raw meat is separated from the bone and digested then the undigested bone lays in the stomach until it is regurgitated.

Chicken backs has never been a problem as they are only the carcass shell and soft enough to digest.

I had a chat with my vet and he was in agreement with me to avoid problematic bones but he was happy for me to give chicken backs which I continue to do without any issues.

It may be a different digesting process with prey model feeding but this is not readily available to me so I can't comment on that.

There has been tragic incidents with feeding bone and even compacted bone meal so I think it makes good sense to educate oneself on the pro's and con's.

Another factor has got to be the individual dog's digesting ability which you can only find out by trial and error.

The only problem i've had with bone was a chicken bone piercing the saliva gland. Nothing serious, it just swelled up a bit. My lot, fortunately, dont insist on eating heavier bones, lamb shank for example. They split the bone into shards and eat the marrow from it, leaving the bone scattered about the garden. Bone from turkey leg always gets regurgitated during the night by Flynn.

When I first started feeding raw there used to be regular patches of blood in the poo and I did worry it was damaging the gut but now there is never any blood. I wonder if maybe the gut has hardened up and become used to passing bone through it.

I coukd never give turkey bones, they are very hard & splinter & all 3 dogs (thankfully) spat the splinters & shards out. Tried them twice & that was enough to never get them again. Second time one of the dogs the next day brought up large shards of turkey leg. Have bought them since (rarely) if very cheaP but hold onto them while dogs tear the flesh off & then discard the bones

i tried raw feeding once and im not saying dont do it but i tried it as my kaya had a bad stomach and had 2 have things plain no additives no nothin butunfortunately kept getting recurring worms and intestine problems ifur going to do it it needs proper research and going into with money andur eyes wide open

Dogs do not get worms from raw meat that has been farmed!

They will get them if you feed wild animals eg rabbits, fish and of course if your dog has fleas.

So you worm problem may be entirely unrelated to feeding raw!

There are a lot of raw feeders who have been raw feeding for a long time on this site including myself. This is the first time I have seen this complaint!--What raw food are you feeding and what is your source?--Is your dog a habitual scavenger that eats things in the wild?.Given a chance the habit of recycling other animals poop is a tasty treat for a scavenging dog. You would have to be certain of everything your dog has ingested to know the true cause.

delete. double post

Even human farmed food can pick up parasites, including various forms/lifestages of worms.

This is one of the things meat is required to be inspected for. In some cases inspection results in failure and the meat being condemned.

Inspection results will also be affected by what level of contamination is present.

A few widely-dispersed cysts could remain hidden within organ or muscle and be missed during routine inspection.

This is one reason why meat should be well cooked, or in some some cases deep frozen for a sufficient period of time, to negate this risk.

Even some human standard, fresh, raw meat can carry a significant risk of potential worm and associated infection. If fed to dogs in this state that can give a reservoir and vector for transmission to humans.


Not all parasites are treatable at all life stages in the live animal and resistance to some treatments can develop over time.

Of course the risk is greater in wild prey/game.