8 weeks
I was got one at 13 weeks and she was a nightmare due to lack of socialisation

One problem is too many breeders have no concept of good early care and the importance of early socialization. Many of them no nothing else of good breeding practices either. The sooner after 6 weeks you get a puppy away from them, the better.

Your opinion of breeders is obviously very poor and I think you generalise too much. There are many breeders that make a point of socialising their pups. Probably many that don't but you tend to focus on the negative where breeders are concerned (I have noticed this before) and it is a bit insulting to breeders that are keen to produce healthy pups of sound temperament and go to great pains to do so.