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Location: town. city
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 128
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19-04-2009, 04:49 PM
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Location: Dorset
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,790
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19-04-2009, 05:24 PM
Originally Posted by Pidge 
But that's just it! They aren't thinking like that. Dogs know that they are dogs and we are humans. They know that we walk them and feed them and make them feel happy & safe. They are not plotting a mutiny in your home if you soften up a little, they're thinking "wow, life just keeps getting better".
My dogs and happy well adjusted well behaved dogs that know they are dogs, they accept strange dogs on a daily basis and the way I do it works for me.
And as for the letting your dogs out comment would of thought that is common sense.
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Location: Poodle Heaven!
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 14,297
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19-04-2009, 05:29 PM
Originally Posted by kcjack
No not all dogs know they are dogs. I have seen many many dogs humanised have 2 at rescue at mo where old ladies have died and they have humanised their dogs we having nightmares with them, wont eat dog food and keep snapping.
My dogs and happy well adjusted well behaved dogs that know they are dogs, they accept strange dogs on a daily basis and the way I do it works for me.
And as for the letting your dogs out comment would of thought that is common sense.
Becky
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Location: Fife Scotland
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,946
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19-04-2009, 05:48 PM
They behave when they are out are good with other people and dogs. I regularly have visitors who bring their dogs to stay and mine are fine about the other dogs.
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Location: Peterborough, UK
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 882
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19-04-2009, 06:33 PM
Originally Posted by cava14una
I must be odd or maybe lazy but I don't really worry about who is in charge. The boys behave pretty well or at least well enough that we live together happily.
They behave when they are out are good with other people and dogs. I regularly have visitors who bring their dogs to stay and mine are fine about the other dogs.
I'm with you on this one - the dogs in my household are my buddies, we share things that friends do, that includes my dinner, the sofa, the bed etc. They also share these happily with other dog visitors and human visitors.
They appear to respect me and I respect them as I would respect a friend, I would never force my friend to do anything so why my dog? I ask and they do as I ask 99% of the time. If they ask for something I d as they ask 99% of the time
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Location: West Yorkshire
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 179
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19-04-2009, 07:14 PM
Originally Posted by Gnasher
Our dogs are NOT our children, and should never be treated as such. They are our dear and beloved pets, our comrades, but to call them our children I think is to demean the nobility of the dog. He is not a human, he is a dog, I'm sure if our dogs would speak they would not describe their humans as their mummies and daddies !!
I hate to see any dog "humanised", I feel it is very disrespectful and demeaning to the dog.
Originally Posted by Gnasher
Good point C & D : this is the original question posed by Pidge, just to remind everyone :
"Who agrees that you must assert your authority over your dog and show them you are the pack leader etc etc. "
I agree entirely with this statement, with some provisos. I would like to insert the words "reasonable" or "acceptable" in there. I do believe we should assert our authority over our dogs, but such a bald statement could be open to misinterpretation. This does not mean that I think it OK for me to beat my dog, starve him, tie him up when he has been naughty, or abuse him. To me, it means that in return for giving him warmth, shelter, good food, access at all times to water, veterinary care, copious amounts of exercise and my undying love and welcome into my human pack, he in turn must abide by my rules, be what they may. This means he is allowed to sleep in my bedroom, but on his bed, not on mine. He is allowed anywhere in my house, but not on the furniture. He has to sit and wait for his food. He must NEVER growl or show aggression towards any young child, whatever the provocation. (Or adult for that matter) He must be fairly obedient, with a reasonable recall (I don't expect miracles from a breed such as mine). He must be well behaved and obedient in public, no jumping up or hassling strangers unless I say it is OK.
Our relationship is a brilliant one, it works, it is entirely symbiotic. I get a huge amount of pleasure from the devotion that I receive from my dog. He knows his place, he knows that if he is unruly - barks at me to tell me to hurry up when we are getting ready to go out on a walk, or jumps up in excitement - nothing is going to happen until he is calm. He knows I will not tolerate being barged down the stairs in excitement, or down our steep slippery steps into the field from our back garden. This is extremely dangerous, and I will not allow it. He knows this, and so therefore very rarely does it now.
I am definitely Boss, and he is happy and safe in the knowledge that hubby and I are top dogs, and so therefore he doesn't need to be, he can get on with his life and enjoy it! I took him out in the fields last night at dusk, and there were bunnies everywhere. He had the most enormous amount of fun chasing them down their burrows, but when he got too close to the fence which leads out onto the road, at my whistle, he immediately returned to me, and of course was rewarded with praise.
Originally Posted by Pidge
But that's just it! They aren't thinking like that. Dogs know that they are dogs and we are humans. They know that we walk them and feed them and make them feel happy & safe. They are not plotting a mutiny in your home if you soften up a little, they're thinking "wow, life just keeps getting better".
As it's been said previously dogs are opportunatist's and will step up to the job if they see a weakness in the authority figure. I'm not saying that they lay there thinking "just wait until she messes up and I'm in there"! Simply if they see the opportunity then they will go for it.
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Location: East Midlands, UK
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,775
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19-04-2009, 08:11 PM
I agree totally with you. I suppose a good way of summarising things in a nutshell would be to say if you give 'em an inch, they will take a yard. This sounds extreme, but I think it is true. In a wolf pack, the alpha male has to be constantly alert for a beta with alpha aspirations staging a take-over Dogs are opportunists, like their wolf ancestors, and will grab the opportunity to "take over" if it is offered to them on a plate. For "offered to them on a plate", read weak human !
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Location: UK
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,723
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19-04-2009, 09:45 PM
I agree if you didnt give boundries then the dog wouldnt know how to behaive and would just what comes natural / most rewarding to it
If you then change your mind and try and impose rules the dogs will of course be confused and try the things it did before to get what it wants
For example
Mia came to me with no training at all
She was totaly used to pulling on the lead
I was not up for that so when she pulled I stopped moving
To start with she pulled even harder to get where she was wanting to go - because this is how she had learnt to get where she wanted to go
She yapped and yelled and allsorts - she wasnt trying to take over she just didnt understand the new rules and why the old way wasnt working
Now she understands she has to walk right
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Location: Dogsey and Worcestershire
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 49,483
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19-04-2009, 09:52 PM
Originally Posted by ajshep1984
So when they ask to go out for a pee, should I not let them in case they think they can boss me about?
Alan, I guess if you are being the 'alpha male' you will go out with your dogs and wait outside with them then make sure they see you come in first through the door so they know 'who is boss ' 
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Location: UK
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,723
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