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View Poll Results: Poll - Do you agree you should be alpha male over your dog?
Yes 70 39.33%
No 71 39.89%
Other, please specify 37 20.79%
Voters: 178. You may not vote on this poll - please see pinned thread in this section for details.



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Jackie
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18-04-2009, 10:43 AM
Originally Posted by Gnasher View Post
This is getting silly. The difference between a snap and a bite is this. A dog can snap at your hand ... and may or may not make contact. If he makes contact, then this would be called a bite. A dog could make the conscious decision to bite ... ie you are holding on to his collar, and he turns his mouth towards your hand and sinks in his teeth. The difference, in my mind, between a snap and a bite is speed therefore. A snap is either an "air" snap, or a snap that makes contact. A bite could be a slow, leisurely build up to a sinking in of the teeth.

Either way, it is unacceptable, especially in today's anti dog climate. What are you going to say to the mother of the toddler who your dog has just snapped at (but not bitten)? O sorry your little girl is so upset, the dog was only air snapping !

Get real folks - this is the litigious 21st century we live in ! I only hope all you guys who think it's OK for your dogs to go round snapping have got plenty of insurance ... you'll need it.
The difference between a "snap" or "bite" is one makes contact the other doesn't... and not sure why one would automatically lead to another.

My boy air snaps all the time he does it when I blow in his face, flick his nose...(all in play I might add) he has never once progressed to sinking his teeth in me.

I think where will will also differ on opinions is where you say the dog makes a "conscious decision" to bite, in my book they are incapable of making conscious decisions, they do things out of instinct... they bite through instinct for what ever reason .

To make a conscious decision, the dog would have to think it through... and make a choice.

We all agree that what we want from our dogs is well mannered behaviour, we gain this by conditioning them ... they learn that to sit will get them a reward, along with any other behaviour we ask.

It is repetition/conditioning,,, they learn to associate A with B... and behave accordingly/

I remember when Millie was a baby, and I would work on her sit /stay... many a time I would look behind me, and Bandit (bless him) was executing the command perfectly ... .. he was doing so, because it was a learned behaviour, he was acting on his instincts...

Although he would have a look on his face that said " hey" look over here , I am doing it just fine, wheres my treat!!

I am not an Alpha, my dogs dont consider me to be such either.

I hope if they ever have any conscious thought , they would consider me the friend and provider.
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Pidge
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18-04-2009, 10:43 AM
Alpha –adjective
8.
a. (esp. of animals) having the highest rank of its sex in a dominance hierarchy: the alpha female.
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Pidge
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18-04-2009, 10:46 AM
I am not the "highest rank of Woody's sex in a dominant hierarchy'', I am his Mummy, which means I care for him, protect him and listen to him. I guide him and teach him. I also respect him and expect him to respect me (as I would my own child).
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Louise13
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18-04-2009, 10:47 AM
Not everyone works off a dictionary..

I see an alpha as a leader, a protector, a provider

You ALL have said you do that...

Soo...what I perceive as an alpha..you all are..
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Meg
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18-04-2009, 10:47 AM
Originally Posted by Pidge View Post
Who agrees with this statement? Who agrees that you must assert your authority over your dog and show them you are the pack leader etc etc.
Poll it up babies! ;o)
I don't see myself as 'Alpha' 'boss' or any of those things.
I am a human and choose to have another species to share my life. I could have made the choice to have a cat, a budgie or maybe a pot bellied pig and I would no more try to be one of their number than I would with a dog.

Neither do I think dogs look upon me as part of a pack or anything resembling another dog .
Common sense tells me dogs are programmed to recognise their own species in order to reproduce. They do this by using scent/sound and observing the body language of other canines. Humans do not smell/look/behave like a dog anymore than a pig cow or cat does and I don't think for a moment any dog thinks otherwise. To them we are 'beings' which have the potential to proved pleasure in a number of ways eg food, praise, play, comfort or an opportunity to follow a natural instinct to chase prey and they quicky learn to offer a behaviour which has proved to elicit a reward.

I think with dogs as with any other species it is important to learn as much as you can about them and why they behave in certain ways, this will give you a valuable insight into how to treat them in order to achieve the maximum results this being a well balanced contented animal (or bird) .

As a human taking on the responsibility of a dog (or any other animal) I have a duty to protect and provide for that animal and to make sure all it's needs are met and that it has a good and happy life.
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Pidge
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18-04-2009, 10:49 AM
I can only begin to imagine how confusing it must be for a dog to live in a world with a human trying to be a dog ;o)
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Louise13
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18-04-2009, 10:52 AM
Originally Posted by Pidge View Post
I can only begin to imagine how confusing it must be for a dog to live in a world with a human trying to be a dog ;o)
Well for something similar watch the nutter that is shaun ellis

Why do people think that if you are alpha that you have to act like a dog??

I certainly dont!!
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Pidge
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18-04-2009, 10:57 AM
I think it's because that is most people's understanding of the role of the alpha male/female.

I've heard about this guy and am deliberately avoiding him ;o)

I think the trouble I have is that I've realised that I have tried too hard to assert my authority over my dog, thinking and believing that this was what I was supposed to do but it's wrong and has possibly contributed now to some behaviour problems.

There has to be a good balance of mutual respect and understanding and to me, being the alpha whatever means that you and only you are in charge.
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Louise13
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18-04-2009, 11:18 AM
Originally Posted by Pidge View Post
I think it's because that is most people's understanding of the role of the alpha male/female.

I've heard about this guy and am deliberately avoiding him ;o)

I think the trouble I have is that I've realised that I have tried too hard to assert my authority over my dog, thinking and believing that this was what I was supposed to do but it's wrong and has possibly contributed now to some behaviour problems.

There has to be a good balance of mutual respect and understanding and to me, being the alpha whatever means that you and only you are in charge.

Your last paragraph...I agree with it..but its different to how I feel..

I respect and understand my dogs..and they respect and understand me..I think I am the alpha, the boss, the leader..

My dogs would glady take over if I let them..(I wish you could come live with my dogs for a week..you would understand what I am talking about)
Malamutes need firm boundaries..and if you don't give them that they will take over..(which is why lots of people get them to 6 months and then have growly snappy dogs that they want to give up as aggressive!!!)

Alpha does mean I am in charge..yes..My dogs will NEVER be in charge of anything..I control food, walks, opening the door etc etc..
They get to play when they want and live like dogs..I only step in when they get to boisterous in play..but even then its only once in a while..as Cruiser ends it if it gets to much..as he knows what I allow..(Cruiser ends it..by behaving like an alpha ,, he will get very vocal and will pin Lola down or will "shout" at her and back off to give her the chance to behave, ) Once I give them food..Cruiser is in charge..If Lola gets too close he tells her off..he will allow her to have his, if and when he has had enough..

So Alpha I may be over both dogs..BUT Cruiser is the true Alpha between the dogs.
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magpye
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18-04-2009, 11:25 AM
Originally Posted by Pidge View Post
I think it's because that is most people's understanding of the role of the alpha male/female.

I've heard about this guy and am deliberately avoiding him ;o)

I think the trouble I have is that I've realised that I have tried too hard to assert my authority over my dog, thinking and believing that this was what I was supposed to do but it's wrong and has possibly contributed now to some behaviour problems.

There has to be a good balance of mutual respect and understanding and to me, being the alpha whatever means that you and only you are in charge.
Totally agree, which is the problem with the term 'alpha' it has actually come to mean so many different things to different people.

The Alpha in a wolf pack is not solely in charge. There is an alpha female, the subordinates, the tracker, flushers, nannys etc different wolves do different jobs. The Alpha is a sort of effective manager, making sure each wolf is doing what they do best and that the pack as a whole functions well. Unruly or difficult behaviour is punished and good behaviour is rewarded with respect and privilege. But they do it instinctually and naturally and without premeditation or thought. We can't emulate the role of the alpha wolf (No Shaun Ellis, not even you), nor should we.

When the first wolf was tamed to help with hunting, they had to develop a whole new set of behaviours to fit in with us.

Ok... we get it wrong... There are communication breakdowns and personality clashes and different theories and training methods suit different people and different dogs.. But in the end, we muddle through because we are a pack?... Maybe.... But mostly I think because we are a Family.

Hmmm... I know what I am trying to say.. But it's tricky this whole language thing
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