As you say, in our breed standard pigmentation is not mentioned, however I believe this to be an oversight - it is mentioned in the standard of the country of origin and is important. Breeders should be looking at the pigmentation when breeding even though it isn't specifically mentioned in the UK standard.

Well Mals are supposed to be shown naturally so this should be an easy point for the judge to determine

They are both faults, however the severity of them needs to be assessed in context. Most breeders do not breed from poorly pigmented dogs or from ones with very loose flews (such as it appears in the original photo). However if the dog was outstanding in all other respects (including health/temperament etc) then just because they have relatively loose flews or slightly poor pigmentation (I am not talking if the pigmentation was to the extent in that image, or if the flews were that loose) doesn't mean that a breeder should automatically discount them, they would just need to choose an appropriate mate. Obviously if a breeder was producing multiple dogs with these faults then they would need to take a good hard look at their breeding, but I wouldn't say that the dog should be automatically excluded. IMO conditions such as epilepsy (which are surfacing more now) are worse than loose flews, especially if the breeder takes steps to minimise the occurance of this being passed on (and obviously the breeder choosing the offspring carefully - keeping one who does not show such a degree of looseness etc in order to carry on their line).


I wouldn't say they are very light, they are ligher than I would desire on a grey, however I know of a dog whom has light eyes and has done very well in the show ring (even though it is not to the standard). In this case the judges have obviously been looking at the overall dog and their light eyes aren't enough of an issue to prevent them from doing well.

Can you no add something adult to this thread

Greyhawk, Thank you just was just what I was trying to get across to that Muppet!

Going to bed, Good night all.

Yes... I am a muppet..better than being a liar and having to make up 20 imaginary friends LOL..

PEOPLE WITH UNDER 20 POSTS DON'T GET PM's..


And what has Kirsty said that agree's with you?? I agree with everything Kirsty said..so still I am missing your point

I said it wasn't in the UK standard..and its not.. it's up to breeders integrity to choose whether they breed from them or not..


Oh and for someone who judges Mals... they should KNOW that Mals aren't trimmed!!!

That muppet happens to be a friend of mine and whilst I am sometimes amused by the name calling that goes on, I would prefer to have a conversation/debate with people who remain civial and express their thoughts in a calm and mature manner.

I think you are both talking from completely opposite ends of the spectrum whilst I see it more from a middle ground. Lou wants a well bred pup that first and foremost has a fantastic temperament and very good health. If they don't meet the standard exactly then it doesn't stop them from being a wonderful pet. From what I can see from your posts, you are assessing it from purely a conformational perspective - yes loose flews aren't desirable, nor is poor pigment but as I said these things have to be looked at in context (using my scenario of light eyes as an example). I am in the middle and want it all, a dog that has good conformation but that had a great temperament and good health (the latter two can not be judged in a show ring). I can also appreciate that whilst a dog may have a minor fault, that doesn't mean it should necessarily be excluded from breeding if it has many great qualities to bring to the breed AND it is a fault that can be bred out over time (and not one that is more detrimental to the breed than the things the dog has to offer).

Both of these posts have led to an infraction (1 each).

Please read our Posting Guidelines and terms of use - we do not allow name-calling or getting personal.

Everyone's allowed an opinion - just keep the threads amicable.

In addition, discussion is of utmost important to move forward, one sidedness never got anyone anywhere.

Can`t it just - a bit like you bowling on in without considering how much knowledge people actually have. How much to do with breed standards have you simply lifted from a book or the net yourself ?

Wrong. It`s because its a site for dog lovers that questions get asked. The spats occur because too many people prefer smokescreens and secrecy. That and so many splits within a breed only 20 years old because of arguments so early on and a load of `he said she said` type tosh, if you look at who most of the arguing comes from it`s a small element of people from one faction or another, not about the dogs themselves but who`s who in this or that faction, hardly very grown up behaviour sadly.



No one gets pleasure like that, and it`s not dogs being pulled to pieces, total lack of ethics of some breeders that get pulled apart, [ any breed ], absolutely yes, and quite right too.


It is. If you have a look at other threads outside of this section you`ll see that happening all the time.

Gold and Diamond supporters are sponsors. Veterans etc are by number of posts, most forums have similar settings.


No you may not It`s a forum technical thing, not something admins on any forums `award` on an individual basis.

There are more knowledgeable people here than on all other dog sites combined imo.

Are you volunteering to be the doorperson ?

Looks to me more like you have a bit of an ego issue that causes you to `need` to talk down to people but hey I could be wrong I suppose.

I`m an agility instructor and qualified judge but not all my dogs do agility, many here are instructors and judges in various canine activities but not all their dogs participate in them either, so your point is



What were you saying about constructive advice and not being unpleasant ?


Where has she `pulled dogs to bits` please ?


Have you contributed to the health thread in that regard ?

Sorry but you`ll find it a bit lonely in there...


More rudeness for the sake of it...

Not with under 20 forums posts you have`nt....
And the way you are going you might not be doing many more posts

Yet more rudeness for the sake of it....

Do try to get out of bed on the right side when you get up
Perhaps then you could contribute to the thread by listing all the breeds for which it`s a fault, [ if you can remember the topic ], as you know so much more than any of us poor mortals

tegan's mouth

She can come to the muppet room with me..I don't care if her gob is pink!

well I must be in the muppet club,. Tegan being vinnie and hollys mother

guess what.....vinnie and holly have good dark mouths.............