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Should you smoke around your dog?

...has received 20 comments (page 2)
Gnasher
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19-02-2019, 09:41 AM
Originally Posted by CaroleC View Post
Husband and self smoked for the first 35 years of our marriage. I bred and showed Goldens and Toys - and also had a child! I have been a little asthmatic from childhood, but neither the dogs nor my daughter had any ill effects. We gave up smoking about 15 years ago, but I think it had more to due to the price of tobacco than to any ill effect on our health. I still love standing next to a smoker!
Well done for giving up - it is the hardest thing to do. Nicotine is the most addictive drug known to man, and takes a huge amount of willpower to give up - I know because I did it many, many moons ago now. Very, very few people who even smoke only a few fags a day get away with it healthwise - sometimes many decades later, COPD or cancer rears its ugly head. Until retirement recently, I worked as a medical secretary in the NHS and virtually every day would see people in wheelchairs having lost 1 or more legs being wheeled outside for their regular infusion of the very poison that lost them their mobility. The dangers of smoking are endless and can lie hidden for decades before they manifest themselves in the most hideous ways. Anybody who smokes with the knowledge that we now have of the dangers in my opinion should have to pay for their own healthcare unless they give up. The damage alcohol inflicts is now snapping on the heels of nicotine, and as much as I love a drink I have cut down drastically on the amount. I take my hat off to you Carole though, it is so hard to give up smoking. Sorry for the rant, but having seen the consequences of smoking first hand it makes me very angry.
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CaroleC
Dogsey Senior
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 938
Female 
 
19-02-2019, 02:28 PM
Yes Gnasher, I do agree with what you say. We are rational beings and do need to be responsible for the lifestyle decisions that we make. However, culture changes over time, and smoking was almost universal in the 'Fifties, due in large part to it having been the drug of choice during those stressful war years. It could well be that my own tendency to asthma was itself due to having parents that smoked. I also believe that at one time doctors actually recommended taking up smoking to improve chest conditions!
Thank goodness, most of us are now surviving for much longer, and we are much better informed about the potential ill effects of our poor lifestyle choices. It is unrealistic to expect the NHS to continue to provide free treatment for the range of avoidable conditions that it is currently expected to deal with.
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Chris
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Joined: Jun 2006
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20-02-2019, 12:49 AM
Originally Posted by Gnasher View Post
Anybody who smokes with the knowledge that we now have of the dangers in my opinion should have to pay for their own healthcare unless they give up.
Too many problems associated with the administration of this that it would be impossible, ie what conditions directly relate to smoking, leaving someone to die, would you treat an injured person who smokes or insist on them paying themself.

It would also raise the question of, as you rightly say, alcohol induced illness/injury; obesity induced illness, sports injuries - all self-induced.

The quickest way to privatise healthcare is, unfortunately. what you are suggesting.

Do I think you should smoke around dogs knowing what we know now? No.
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Gnasher
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Female 
 
20-02-2019, 11:20 PM
Originally Posted by Chris View Post
Too many problems associated with the administration of this that it would be impossible, ie what conditions directly relate to smoking, leaving someone to die, would you treat an injured person who smokes or insist on them paying themself.

It would also raise the question of, as you rightly say, alcohol induced illness/injury; obesity induced illness, sports injuries - all self-induced.

The quickest way to privatise healthcare is, unfortunately. what you are suggesting.

Do I think you should smoke around dogs knowing what we know now? No.
I think for very extreme cases of wilfully ignoring all advice and continuing to smoke, drink alcohol or stuff yourself with refined carbs when there is irrefutable evidence that what you are doing is 100% causing your problem - ie the amputee having lost one leg caused by smoking, flatly refuses to give up smoking and then loses the other leg; the alcoholic who refuses to give up drinking; or the grossly obese person flatly refusing to cease consuming large amounts of refined carbs - I think in these extreme cases it IS perfectly possible to withdraw the right for NHS free treatment. I think the doubtless suffering - both physical and financial - this would cause would have the miraculous effect!
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Chris
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21-02-2019, 09:01 AM
and the sportsman who willfully plays a sport knowing they could break a bone?

We willfully drive in cars every day knowing that the roads are dangerous.

The scaffolder willfully climbs heights every day. What about him?

How about the dog owner who gets bitten?

Where does it end?

We'd quickly end up like America where the asthmatic dies because they can't afford inhalers and cancer patients only get treatment if they have enough left in their insurance pot.

No, leave our NHS alone for all it's faults. God forbid it's ever watered down more than it is already
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Gnasher
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23-02-2019, 12:33 PM
Those sports and life styles you quote are part of the normal risks of human life ... acceptable risks that we all HAVE to take in the case of work choices, or acceptable risks that we WANT to take to enjoy our lives to the full - horse riding, mountain climbing etc. etc. The obvious physical benefits of any sport or past time however dangerous that might be far outweigh the risks in my opinion - positives coming from negatives. However, in the case of obesity, smoking and drinking too much alcohol, there are absolutely no benefits whatsoever, just very harmful and life-threatening side effects - although smoking and alcohol consumption does bring temporary enjoyment I must admit! I work, or did until I retired recently, for the NHS and have seen at first hand for over 10 years the damage that these 3 things cause - without obesity, smoking and excessive alcohol consumption, the NHS would be amazing; there would be no long waiting lists, no multiple hours waiting in A & E and far more funding available for such things as mental health, geriatric medicine and all the other areas that get sorely neglected because of the huge financial burden placed on the NHS by self-inflicted illnesses.
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Gnasher
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Female 
 
23-02-2019, 12:47 PM
3 and a half years ago, the NHS budget for adapting equipment such as operating tables, trolleys, mortuary slabs, beds, was Ł7m ... over 3 years ago!! That figure must be considerably higher now ... and that is just a small example compared to other considerations relating to obesity alone. I am not exactly skinny myself - my BMI is 24, and should be lower, and I am aiming for just that now I have a new knee and can start exercising properly again. So I am entirely sympathetic of the massive amount of willpower it takes to keep your weight down in today's modern society of delicious refined carbs, but we all have to do it to stay fit and healthy, otherwise we will become obese too.
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Chris
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23-02-2019, 02:02 PM
I agree with all you say apart from the charging element.

Not for the principle iteself, because I fume at the amount of people who binge drink and end up in A&E, but because of the watering down of our NHS if ever it was to happen.

A slow erosion of the aims of the NHS (free at point of contact) is the way to end it altogether. You can see, that I don't trust bureaucracy as far as I can throw it.

It really isn't for selfish reasons that I don't want the system watered down. My weight is reasonable, I don't smoke and haven't had a drink in the last 15 years simply because I found going into pubs boring. Although, maybe it is for selfish reasons as I don't want to have to rely on insurance or being able to afford expensive medications privately for any condition I may develop
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Gnasher
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23-02-2019, 10:14 PM
Originally Posted by Chris View Post
I agree with all you say apart from the charging element.

Not for the principle iteself, because I fume at the amount of people who binge drink and end up in A&E, but because of the watering down of our NHS if ever it was to happen.

A slow erosion of the aims of the NHS (free at point of contact) is the way to end it altogether. You can see, that I don't trust bureaucracy as far as I can throw it.

It really isn't for selfish reasons that I don't want the system watered down. My weight is reasonable, I don't smoke and haven't had a drink in the last 15 years simply because I found going into pubs boring. Although, maybe it is for selfish reasons as I don't want to have to rely on insurance or being able to afford expensive medications privately for any condition I may develop
Gosh I am so impressed re the alcohol - wish I could totally stop. We don't keep alcohol at all in the house now, but have a rule that we have to go out to drink which means that one of us has to be the named driver - usually me so I have to make do with just one small glass of wine - which is very hard for me! I don't think it is selfish of you to want the NHS to be free for everyone irrespective of whether their condition is self-inflicted or not - it is entirely reasonable. But as a person who obviously takes care of themselves, you would not be penalised by having to pay for treatment!!
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mjfromga
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 5,680
Female 
 
10-05-2019, 03:39 PM
The bad habits you mention are "self inflicted" but the issues behind them might not be. Mental illness, trauma (such as being raped, robbed at gunpoint, etc) can cause a chain reaction that we know as self destructive behavior. Forcing people to pay for treatments that lie behind these issues may not always be fair.

The term "self inflicted" doesn't have any true meaning. I could fall down the stairs at home and break a bone. This is self inflicted. Why should someone else have to pay for my treatment? I should have to pay for it myself and I should also be more careful. See?

And then you have other variables. As an example? I have an anger problem. In a fit of anger and/or poorly controlled emotion, I strike someone, not really inflicting any serious injury, perhaps a bruise... But they strike back defending themselves and break my nose. I started this fight and should be responsible for paying for my own treatment. I did not actually inflict my own injuries but other people should not be made to pay my medical bill.

And I noticed you said "exessive" alcohol consumption. What counts as "excessive" to one person means nothing to the next. Same as "excessive" food to one person may be nothing to the next... Or "excessive" smoking to one may be nothing to the next. You hold a bias because you are a drinker.

While obese people often "stand out" as looking unhealthy, it can be harder to spot the health issues behind an excessive drinker or smoker... But the obese person standing next to the heavy drinker or smoker very well may be more healthy.
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