I also happen to think CM is a good trainer, dog person etc he gets results, alot of dog behavioural problems become so, because the owners treat dogs as human and there not, there dogs simple as that, CM treats dogs as dogs and gets results, the collar he use's doesnt hurt the dog's, but the dogs know he unlike there owners are not a push over and the dogs respect that.xxzbxx

I bought a clicker training book for the first time last week to see what it was all about :smt102

In the introduction it says that trainers are developing ways to use (them) .. in hunting, field trials and tracking.

I wonder if all the terriermen I see at shows have clickers in their pockets. Must try to find out somehow, if only I knew who to ask ....

Well this "terrier man" (woman) doesnt have one and dogs have been working pefectly well all these years without!

Thanks for the video Michflynn, he's a cracking little pup. I do appreciate clicker training is ok for some people, but its shoved into peoples faces as the be all and end all too much for my liking.

Tosh! Most of my family keep working terriers and lurchers, not a clicker in sight. Mind you, most of their training methods would not get the Dogsey seal of approval, yet their dogs are well trained, happy, healthy, obediant members of their family. Ditto for the relatives with working gundogs, all the ones I know are trained to a whistle..not a clicker.

Personally I don't like clickers. I used it in a very food orientated breed for a few months as a pup and ended up with a dog who would sit begging for food every time I told her to sit for over 6 months after me chucking the clicker method altogether!

She is now the best behaved she has ever been without the clicker and with a more firmer approach to training and behaviour modification and can I say also, a HELL of a lot happier! And that is definate! Oh and she certainly isn't afraid of me. Although sometimes I wish she was the little witch! (That is a joke guys!)

thats great to hear ..

One thing not mentioned that i can find is that he states he will never put down a dog if he can correct its behaviour!
Surely wether you like him or not this has to be a good thing as to many dogs are put to sleep because thier fools of owners do not or cannot train them to be sociable animals!

He earns many points on this alone from me!!!

*picks self up off floor* Oh my we AGREE on something!!!
Was bound to happen eventually. Sorry, just had to say.

I'm just going to address a few things as others have already said most of what I was to say.

First: The myth that CM got rid of his pack when he moved. Not true. The majority of the dogs in his pack belonged to various rescue groups around the CA and yes, while he was moving facilities, alternative foster settings had to be found for them. HIS dogs, that belonged to him, stayed with him in his house or in kennels and are currently at his new facility along with a rapidly growing pack of newly balanced rescued dogs. This was a lie started by CM haters in the U.S. that has no basis in reality, as do many of thier slights on his character.

Also, to the idea that CM uses captive pack studies to fuel his understanding of dog behavior. Actually, if you've read his book, he actually built his foundation of dog/human pack behavior by observing rural Mexican ranchers and farmers and their dogs. This was what sold me on CM's theories. I lived two years in rural poverty areas of Mexico and spent a total of five years working there. I too spent many a long afternoon just watching these men and their dogs. Plain enough mutts they were, working stock like the finest purebreds trained for years by masters of the trade. There was an inate respect. That sound, that TSST sound, is a Mexican thing. They all use it. I can't tell you how many times I sat by a Mexican cookstove grinding corn and chatting with the woman of the house, to have our conversation interupted by a tsst as she shoos the pup out of the kitchen. Long ramble just to say, I too have seen the interactions and dynamics that Cesar describes in his book and uses as a foundation for his theories. They are domestic dog-human interactions, not wolf pack theory. And they work.

Off to post up some of my mexican dog pics in the gallery if anyone wants to see.

Well, keeping a working lurcher myself and knowing dozens of terriermen and lurchermen I've never seen one used, but maybe the users are all in the closet? Surely the author cannot be making it up?? And if that is made up, what else in the book is also pie in the sky?

Maybe I should start a thread on a couple of working dog forums and see how it goes?

I have a 50-odd kg Bullmastiff who has been trained from the minute we got her with positive methods (clicker mainly). She wouldn't be here now if we'd used bullying and confrontation, she wouldn't be safe to be.

If I (a relative numpty *lol*) can train such a big and bolshy dog (who had little or no previous socialisation) with positive methods, not having once had to use physical punishment etc, I don't personally see the need for it, not on my dogs now or in the future at least.

Everyone has the choice of what they do with their dogs, and everyone has the right to their own views and beliefs. I personally believe that while there are methods that don't require the danger of confrontation, or bullying, then I won't be using that to train my dogs - I'd much rather have a relationship with them built on trust and respect than fear and "dominance".

But that's me personally.