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View Poll Results: Poll - Do you agree you should be alpha male over your dog?
Yes 70 39.33%
No 71 39.89%
Other, please specify 37 20.79%
Voters: 178. You may not vote on this poll - please see pinned thread in this section for details.



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Gnasher
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20-04-2009, 03:14 PM
We do indeed Sam, but the 2% difference in DNA is a massive one, and accounts for the distinctive differences both physiologically and psychologically. You can see quite clearly that apes and man are closely related, but nowhere near as closely related as dogs and wolves - which are the same species.
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Gnasher
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20-04-2009, 03:16 PM
To get back on track, I've just noticed that the poll results are getting much closer. the No's have it ... just at the moment !
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labradork
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20-04-2009, 03:17 PM
Do you have a source for your information; re: dogs being 99.8% similar to wolves? I have read percentages for wolf/dog relatedness before, but they were not 99.8%.
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Gnasher
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20-04-2009, 03:28 PM
Somewhere yes - it won't be difficult to find. I will do a google search. But when the Smithsonian Institute reclassified dogs as Canis Lupus Familiaris, I believe it was from the scientific papers that OH researched that we sourced the data. I'll have a look, but OH is on the prowl and will go mad if he knows that I'm playing !!

Back soon.
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SamRottLabb
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20-04-2009, 03:29 PM
Originally Posted by Gnasher View Post
We do indeed Sam, but the 2% difference in DNA is a massive one, and accounts for the distinctive differences both physiologically and psychologically. You can see quite clearly that apes and man are closely related, but nowhere near as closely related as dogs and wolves - which are the same species.

Oh I know I totally agree with you there is no comparison between dogs and wolves to us and chimpanzee's.
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Gnasher
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20-04-2009, 03:30 PM
Just found this :

"Dogs and wolves share 99.8% of their mitochondrial DNA (Wayne, R.K. Molecular Evolution of the Dog Family). Dogs are so much like wolves physiologically that they are frequently used in wolf studies as a physiological model for wolf body processes (Mech, L.D. 2003: Wolves: Behavior, Ecology & Conservation). "

I'm going to follow up the R K Wayne study.
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Gnasher
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20-04-2009, 03:35 PM
Here we go : it's a bit complicated, but I can just about work it out :

"Dogs may be derived from several different ancestral gray wolf populations, and many dog breeds and wild wolf populations must be analysed in order to tease apart the genetic sources of the domestic dog gene pool. A limited mtDNA restriction fragment analysis of seven dog breeds and 26 gray wolf populations from different locations around the world has shown that the genotypes of dogs and wolves are either identical or differ by the loss or gain of only one or two restriction sites22. The domestic dog is an extremely close relative of the gray wolf, differing from it by at most 0.2% of mtDNA sequence15,22,23.
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Gnasher
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20-04-2009, 03:48 PM
Originally Posted by SamRottLabb View Post
Exactly! Gnasher's answered that perfectly.

Well I would of put money on that your lab wouldn't see that chase through as firstly the prey is too big and secondly that your dog has no need to as s/he knows they have no need to. That's all it is - a chase for fun. My Lab chase's bird's, rabbits given a chance but not as she wants to eat them but just for chase. I think that's obvious.



Some dogs wouldn't survive due to health problems (and it's us humans that have bred half of them into them) and some dogs maybe due to weather and alot of other reason's but there are the same situation's with wolfs/wild dogs and unfortunatly this is nature. But the majority of fit healthy dogs would be able to. What i'm trying to say is that you cannot dismiss the fact that they share simular traits.

Thanks Sam ! I blushed when I read about some dogs chasing for fun. I'm afraid Hal and now Tai chase because they want to kill, and when they kill, they then eat what they have killed. I hasten to add this is small rodents, rabbits and once that poor leveret. Some breeds have very high prey drives, and Tai is no exception. He will kill livestock - on his second day with us, he killed one of next door's chickens. Not his fault, we were walking round the field, they were out, having escaped from their garden, and were hiding in the hedge. We had no idea they were there, as we passed them, they all started running around like the headless chickens one of them was shortly to become ! Very embarrassing, but after a few strict lessons, we can now walk off lead past the chickens and get him to completely ignore them. However, if he thinks we have lost attention, he would have them like a shot, so we have to be very vigilant.

Tai is well fed with raw meat, bones and veg. He doesn't need to kill to eat, but still he does, just like a cat will hunt and kill despite the fact it is well fed. It is natural, we just have to make absolutely sure that he doesn't kill livestock by keeping him on the lead around sheep, cattle etc.
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ClaireandDaisy
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20-04-2009, 04:00 PM
Originally Posted by Gnasher View Post
Well, all I can say is your eyes were closed ! You've got to be kidding C & D !! Admittedly, my chosen breed is wolfey guys, so obviously my dogs are going to display far more wolfey characteristics than 100% wolves, but even so, there is so much that is so similar if you really, really LOOK and empty your mind completely of everything you have ever learned about wolves, both fact and fiction. You should be able to see the dog in the wolf, and the wolf in the dog.
I can see the wolf in the dog, of course...in the same way I see the horse in the zebra, and Cro-magnon in the homo sapiens and the cheetah in the domestic tabby. To me, it`s plain daft to dismiss thousands of years of selective breeding. Do you not believe in Darwinism? Do you not see that animals evolve and change?
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greyhoundk
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20-04-2009, 04:02 PM
My greyhound doesn't just chase for fun either - she has killed a goose, next doors cat unfortunately and she catches rabbits - its a natural instinct.
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