register for free
View our sister sites
Our sister sites
Our sister sites
Our sister sites
View Poll Results: Which CM methods do you use on your dog?
Do you make sure your dog has enough exercise? 26 68.42%
Do you use "calm Energy" when handling your dogs? 7 18.42%
Have you ever used Foot tapping for attention? 1 2.63%
Have you ever used Foot tapping for correction? 0 0%
Have you ever used "tsstg" for attention 1 2.63%
Have you ever used "tsstg" for correction 1 2.63%
Have you ever used the "hand bite" for attention 0 0%
Have you ever used the "hand bite" for correction 0 0%
Do you use prong collars 0 0%
Do you use the illusion collar, or other NONslip slipcollar 0 0%
Have you ever used flooding to overcome your dogs fear 0 0%
Have you ever pinned your dog to the floor 1 2.63%
Have you ever pinned your dog to the fllor for any reason other than aggression 1 2.63%
Do you alpha roll your dog? 0 0%
Voters: 38. You may not vote on this poll - please see pinned thread in this section for details.



Closed Thread
Page 21 of 27 « First < 11 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 > Last »
Promethean
Dogsey Junior
Promethean is offline  
Location: Back in Canada, finally!!!!!
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 245
Male 
 
06-10-2009, 02:56 PM
Originally Posted by scarter View Post
Some of them are. Others maintain that everything he does is wrong - which is just silly in my opinion. As you correctly point out, much of what he does is the same as what most positive trainers claim to do (when pushed).
One thing that is without question is that his EXPLANATIONS are all wrong, though for some reason you antis refuse to acknowledge this. I've also dispute that any so-called (+) trainer would kick or hang a dog to exhaustion.

This is where I disagree. The way that CM presents this information is unique.
Meaning wrong, made up, bordering on supernatural, often religious nonsense.


Ceasar Millan says (in one of his books/his website - can't remember where) that it doesn't matter what training methods you use - treats, praise, play, clicker training, the latest fad - whatever works for you.
The ends justify the means.
scarter
Dogsey Senior
scarter is offline  
Location: Glasgow, UK
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 810
Female 
 
06-10-2009, 02:56 PM
Originally Posted by Petrina View Post
You think wys should search through your posts in order to answer you? I'm sure she has MUCH better things to do then that!
Not at all. I haven't asked wys to put herself out to answer any questions for me. There's nothing I want from her. It's the other way around
Promethean
Dogsey Junior
Promethean is offline  
Location: Back in Canada, finally!!!!!
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 245
Male 
 
06-10-2009, 03:01 PM
Originally Posted by CheekyChihuahua View Post
I watched a DW programme the other day, where CM tried the usual technique of getting the dog to mind him (as in the hand bite and the tssssstg) but the dog didn't take any notice, was too intent on getting at the passing dogs. CM said that when a dog doesn't take notice then you can offer something else to get the dogs notice. The owner said he liked cheese and CM happily used the cheese to take the dogs main interest from getting at passing dogs.
I saw this episode, when the cheese did not do the trick he resorted to jabbing the dog. As a rabid anti, I wouldn't expect you to remember that part.
Wysiwyg
Dogsey Veteran
Wysiwyg is offline  
Location: UK
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 5,551
Female 
 
06-10-2009, 03:05 PM
Originally Posted by CheekyChihuahua View Post
We're making a habit of this agreeing to disagree business



I just brought that episode up because, tbh, I don't recall seeing CM work with treats/food in his training very often. I just thought how adaptable he can be and thought it worth posting about, just for those opposed to CM to see that he does adapt his methods to "fit" the dog he's working with.
It was a good post,
I haven't yet seen him work with food treats, perhaps next time i see him, I will catch one of those programmes

Wys
x
rune
Dogsey Veteran
rune is offline  
Location: cornwall uk
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,132
Female 
 
06-10-2009, 03:06 PM
I have just read the pack dogs histories on CM's website.

Only 3 or 4 of them are/were aggressive dogs. Most were young dogs or pups when he took them on.

He doesn't do a lot for the pitbull image by marvelling at a group of three living happily together either!

It isn't difficult to introduce a screwed up dog into a stable group.

I find myself having less admiration for him than I did before.

rune
Wysiwyg
Dogsey Veteran
Wysiwyg is offline  
Location: UK
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 5,551
Female 
 
06-10-2009, 03:12 PM
Originally Posted by scarter View Post
And I pointed out that the answers to your questions (questions that have already been asked of me in earlier iterations of this circular debate) have already been given in other posts.

Read my answers. If you've got anything new to add to the debate then come back to me.
Scarter, I have tried reading your answers, already, which is why I've asked. I'm not a lazy poster

I am surprised that you choose to write a post commenting on what I may say to clients, and yet you cannot have the courtesy to return the compliment I pay you, of remaining polite and commenting where I can, and replying to your post!

I am wondering if this is because you have got yourself confused and cannot answer.

I'll have another re-read of your posts when I have a moment and then say what i think you've said about methods; you will then be free to comment or not.

Wys
x
Wysiwyg
Dogsey Veteran
Wysiwyg is offline  
Location: UK
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 5,551
Female 
 
06-10-2009, 03:16 PM
Originally Posted by Promethean View Post
... I've also dispute that any so-called (+) trainer would kick or hang a dog to exhaustion.
Yes I'd definitely dispute that.
If they do, they are no way positive trainers, at all.

Wys
x
Ben Mcfuzzylugs
Dogsey Veteran
Ben Mcfuzzylugs is offline  
Location: UK
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,723
Female 
 
06-10-2009, 03:17 PM
Sorry Scarter but I think you are being rude to Wys who was asking a valid question

The way you post makes it sound like you are saying positive training didnt work for you
But then when questioned it seems the methods you are using now that are working are what most of us would consider to be positive training

I think terms are muddled up here so I will clarify what I - and I think many positive trainers mean by positive and negative

Reward - something that makes the behaviour more likely to happen
Punishment - something that makes the behaviour less likely to happen (not just hitting or pinning or agression - could just be if dog jumps up he stops getting attention)

Positive - something added
Negative - something taken away

Positive reward - dog does something something good happens - makes the dog more likley to do it again
Negative reward - dog does something and bad things stop happening - ear pinch lessens, choke chain releases

Positive punishment - Dog does something and something bad happens to it, dog chews book, you shout at dog
Negative punishment - Dog does something and good things go away - as above where dog bounces up and stops getting fuss


Positive training tends to be a balance of positive reward and negative punishment

Lots of what you see on CM is Negative reward and positive punishment - if the tssstt, foot tap, hand bite or whatever make a dog less likely to do what it was doing then it is considered punishment
Example is shadow, he barks at another dog and CM applies positive punishment by foot tapping, shadow starts lunging and struggling, CM uses negative reward - only slackening the lead when Shadow stops lunging


Note - if something you are using as punishment +ve or -ve isnt causing the behaviour to become less then it is not effective punishment it is nagging or abuse and you should stop and think the problem better
Wysiwyg
Dogsey Veteran
Wysiwyg is offline  
Location: UK
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 5,551
Female 
 
06-10-2009, 03:19 PM
Originally Posted by scarter View Post
Not at all. I haven't asked wys to put herself out to answer any questions for me. There's nothing I want from her. It's the other way around
If you take part in a forum and make a lot of strong comments, it's best if people understand exactly where you are coming from. No offence but the posts where you discuss training, trainers, CM and so on are sometimes in places, vague. I don't mean to be rude, and I am sorry if it sounds that way, but it is true - I'm not the only person unsure as to your meaning after all.


Wys
x
Wysiwyg
Dogsey Veteran
Wysiwyg is offline  
Location: UK
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 5,551
Female 
 
06-10-2009, 03:21 PM
Out of interest, can anyone enlighten me as to what rubbing a person's bumps means?

I am wondering if it refers to the brain, but it's a wild guess

Apparently I am not due the courtesy of an explanation. No problem, but I am wondering what it is as my first thought was, I have to say, rubbing the mammary area! which I am sure it is not!

Wys
x
Closed Thread
Page 21 of 27 « First < 11 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 > Last »


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 4 (0 members and 4 guests)
 


© Copyright 2016, Dogsey   Contact Us - Dogsey - Top Contact us | Archive | Privacy | Terms of use | Top