Molly - Cluster Fits

Molly had an epileptic fit last night bout 11ish, she came round as she normally does not recognising us and a little insecure, but then bout 30 mins later she had another, then another, then another, in the end she had nearly 20 fits, everytime she came out of it she was pacing, walking into walls and stuff, circling and trying to get into small spaces between the furniture, she didnt acknowledge us at all and couldnt see or hear. we took her to the vets early this morning and they ended up taking her in to put her on a drip.. i called 3 this afternoon as told, to see how she is and they said that she had another fit when we left her.
They have put her on a drip with diazapan and she was out for bout 2hrs but when she came round she had another fit, so they sedated her again and when i called she was just coming round again.
they said she was having whats called cluster fits.
i have to phone at 10 tomorrow morn to see how she has been over night.

How awful both for her and for you I hope she's improving. At least she's in the best possible place. Good luck, I hope she makes a speedy recovery xx

My still-lamented Snorri-dog was epileptic, and his first cluster fit was the signal to start him on phenobarbitol full-time. Between March 2001 and 13 October 2008, he had only one siezure, and that was when we tried to wean him off the Pb (with vet advice). He was only ten when he left (we think by a stroke) and there was no obvious evidence of any connection.

Despite all this, he had many years of happy life, with beach-wrecking, postman-hollering, mince-munching and biscuit-gobbling thrown in.

See my article in the "Articles" section - epilepsy is a bummer, but it isn't the horror that people tend to think it is.

Snorri

Thanks for that i will take a look.
She has been on Phenobarb for about 3 yrs now but is on a low dose of 30mg twice daily so i am thinking that maybe she may need the dose upped.
i will let you know what the vet says when i phone tomorow.

After his last fit, we actually reduced the dose from 2x30 mg to 2x15 mg per day. This held him for the last half of his life. Not only did this make it cheaper, it reduced the strain on his liver and kidneys caused by the phenobarb.

Don't assume the dose will HAVE to be upped, and don't suggest it to the vet. An increase may be needed, but, in the words of the old song, "It ain't necessarily so..."

Snorri

Hi Scruffydog.

My dog suffers from clusters - he can have upward of 13 over around 36 hours. He has also been sedated on a drip when the clusters became uncontrollable and it was an emergency.

Firstly, try not to worry - Molly is in the best place and usually they use diazepam to stop the cluster.

Now, phenobarbitone is their usual choice of drug - it gets to work very quickly (within about two weeks). However, dogs do become tolerant of it so a larger dose becomes necessary over time. Also it can cause liver damage so it might be worth looking at a milk thistle supplement to help with this.

I wonder if your vet has thought about potassium bromide tablets at all? These are often used as an adjunct to phenobarbitone if the dog has clusters or seems to not respond to phenobarbitone. This drug takes up to three months to reach threshold.

The dog will need regular blood tests to check the levels against the fitting history. With phenobarbitone, they will do liver functon tests periodically.

Incidentally, my dog is on potassium bromide alone because he had an adverse reaction to phenobarbitone and I am concerned about the side effects.

There are some newer drugs that have been used in man, although these are expensive.

However, it does depend upon the dog and you need to make decisions based upon knowledge. Have you come across the Guardian Angels website at all? It is an excellent resource:

http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-...m/site_map.htm

Also, in cluster fits, it is helpful to have a stock of rectal diazepam tubes. These can be used to try to stop, or at least reduce, the severity of the clusters. I use these for my dog and I tend to use them at the first fit, the third, the fifth ... then I start to be very cautious and consider veterinary intervention.

Please contact me if I can be of any help at all.

As your dog has had fits before, I guess you know to give food after the fit because they get very hungry and need energy levels replenished. Also make sure the dog is not over-heated or dehydrated.

I do hope Molly will be okay.
xxx

thanks, i have asked about having blood tests a few times but as its a PDSA vets they dont do them, how important is it for the tests as i will take her to my other vets if need be.
Also the PDSA vets have always told me not to feed her as it is an unnatural hunger, i feel really bad now if i do have to feed her after because she is so hungry after but i dont feed her as vets have told me not to.
i will ask about the rectal diazapan, but may also have to go to other vet for that.
how does the milk thistle sup help and were can i get it.
i will go look at the site you have posted.
thanks again

sarah x

Aw honey

As I understand it the dog will be ravenous because they expend a huge amount of energy during a fit so they need to replenish that deficit. Also, low blood sugar levels can bring on a fit in affected dogs. I would suggest something like a rice cake with honey or cream cheese - that kind of amount. I know Brandykins on here gives chicken breast with water - this gets her dog to drink water too and I have found this helpful with Loki. As a one-off, from time to time - it shouldn't encourage weight gain. It's just a matter of being careful afterwards. Loki is always ravenous afterwards.

It is important to have the blood levels checked so that we can be sure that the amount of drug is adequate to control the fits but not too much as to cause excessive side effects. It is by monitoring levels and the inherent side effects that they/we can judge whether to increase or decrease the amount of drug and/or add another drug.

Also, with phenobarbitone, it is important to periodically monitor liver function as this drug can cause liver damage over time.

With rectal diazepam - when the dog has gone into the fit and finished with the convulsions and paddling, there is a period of calm ... this is when the insert the rectal diazepam tubes and you squeeze in the contents.

Milk thistle can be purchased from health shops and supermarkets. Have a read through the Guardian Angels website - there is some great info:


http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-...gencycare.html

Milk thistle:
http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-...lk_thistle.htm

http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-...tal_valium.htm

Hi - just checking to see how Molly is this morning? I hope she had a peaceful night and that you did too.
x

Hi Molly has had to stay at the vets as she is still fitting, they are sedating her still but when she comes out of it she is fitting again. they said she is eatiing and nearly ate the nurses thumb, bless her.
i have to phone again tomorrow at half 11.
Not sure what to do if she is still fitting then, i mean how long can/should i let her go on like this?
thanks for that site it is very informative.