So I gather from your posts that your Beagle is a working bred one, rather then one bred for the show ring? if that is right, the show/working debate is a WHOLE other debate...

No. Her mum is a show champion as are most of her ancestors. Her litter sister has won umpteen shows and has qualified for crufts. Her breeder most definitely breeds for the show ring. And is very successful.

All British bred show beagles can be traced back to pack beagles about 50 or 60 years ago. There was lots of diversity in the pack beagles as different types of beagle were bred for hunting different types of terrain. The show beagles are more standardised. My little girl is (build wise) a throw-back to her ancestors from 50 years ago (an Eton College Pack Beagle).

Woody is a pet and has been bred from 2 lines of pets (the last 3 were admittedly FTCH). We are constantly meeting gundog experts (including our trainer) telling us he is a cracking example of the breed and being asked if we would stud him or work him as he would be great at both.



He's just a pet to us but supposing we did show him (well trial him as he's from working lines) and he was an absolute dream, what then as remember, he's come from last 2 lines of pets only!

Also, my parents beagles, Poppy & Jackson are bred from Dufosee (Scarter may know them). His father (or Grandfather, I forget) Jackson Dufosee was a best in show winner but I think they are (whilst lovely) terrible examples of the breed. So how do you explain that?



Using a working Springer as an example I would rather have him bred from good temperament pets than a long line of FTCH or other working champions that are absolutely nutso from all the work they've been doing.

It's fine in my opinion to breed (responsibly) from pets for pets, workers for workers so there is a good mix for people to chose from.

Pidge, Woody is getting more handsome every time I see a pic of him. He is another fine example of a "pet" born from "pets" - which doesn't make him any less a credit to his breed.

Hi Valandra
....research and more research ...
...this to me is a line which consistently produces good healthy dogs true to type with excellent temperaments. In the case of working dogs, capable of carrying out the purpose for which they were intended.

I will give you an example, I can trace my current bitch's line on the dams side back to the 1930s. A lot of the dogs in her pedigree were bred by one of the foremost breeders of the breed in the world . Her sire is an imported International Champion, his line goes back to stock which was exported from the UK . I know from my bitches KC registration that her sire and dam had the appropriate eye tests and tested clear at the time of testing.
I know from my bitches pedigree that she comes from some of the best examples of her breed in the world bred by people who were prepared to put their dogs forward for the scrutiny of others to be judged as to whether or not they were good examples of the breed an as such worthy to be bred from. I would say my bitch comes from a good breeding line and the proof is she is a good example of the breed in every way.

Years ago I worked for a Championship Show secretary who along with his wife was an international judge. One of the two breeds we bred were Cockers. We had a Champion bitch Carry who's dam came from the famous HS Lloyd 'of Ware' lines. When Carry the bitch became a Show Champion she went on finish her gundog training with a Gamekeeper and got her working certificate. This demonstrates that in a good line it is possible to have dogs which can both be shown and work.

Good breeders who research their lines before breeding are the guardians of a breed, they do their best to ensure only the best fittest dogs are bred from and before they breed from a dog they ask themselves 'will I be harming the breed in any way if I breed from this dog'.

I personally don't think people should be breeding 'just pets' , everyone who breeds should be breeding to produce the best.

The proof of the pudding and all that............

Have a look at my thread with pics of my girls (it's just come up again - "For Pidge and anyone who likes Chihuahuas") and tell me my girls that I have bred aren't good examples of the breed (Bambi and Krystal)!

So what about Jackson? He was bred from good show lines and is a terrible example of a beagle?

Woody might have been bred from a pet but he is the best in my eye ;o)

Not just your eye Pidge, he's stolen many a Dogsey heart

Thanks ;o)

This thread has turned very interesting, if a little OT.

I used to be, very strongly, in the camp of only breeding from proven workers, where collies are concerned anyway. I am actually starting to broaden my mind and see things from different perspectives.

Regarding breeding solely for a pet market, I think if it is done responsibly - ie all health checks done, temperament of both parents is excellent, homes lined up for all the pups, the parents are good examples of the breed etc, then I don't have any problem with it whatsoever.

Using the showring as a yardstick to measure breed standards by can be rather misleading. Just look at what the showring is doing to modern day GSDs What about one of the Crufts winners not being able to breathe properly and having to have surgery to rectify that? What about a top winning Cavalier suffering from a horrendous genetic disease? I wouldn't want a dog such as those. A winner in the show ring is just one man (or woman's) opinion after all.

Unfortunately many working bred dogs are just too work-minded for the average pet home. I used to think that if you can't handle the inherent instincts of a working breed then you should choose a different breed. How arrogant is that?! There will always be working dogs in pet homes - border collies, working springers etc, so why not breed pet border collies/springers etc who can live happily in a pet environment without going stir crazy?

Also, you can breed a fab show dog to an equally fab show dog and end up with flawed (in show terms) pets. You can breed a multi sheepdog trial winner to a proven working bitch, and still end up with pups that can't work. There are no guarantees when breeding dogs.