Oh right, I see.

Much more cruel than the dog possibly ignoring the recall (or the electric shoc), just once, after being "cured" with the e-collar, running off and getting in to a dangerous situation.

Yes, definitely much more cruel than keeping him on a strong, long line and harness, still with freedom, but much safer.

You havent dotted the Is & crossed the Ts as you STILL have not told us ,
EXACTLY what training you gave him, & How , because it sounds like (see your quoted post )
that if you/oh is chasing a dog shouting & calling, then you clearly do not understand a fundemental rule of recall

That was impossible for me as I can't hold a driving license and certainly can't afford a taxi on a daily basis and when working no way I could spend hours travelling to get somewhere safe.

Long line and harness worked for me and still does when we walk somewhere not secure but OP feels that is cruel for some reason.

No, I would only think it cruel if you NEVER let your dog off a lead. My dogs are put onto their leads whenever we approach a road, when we go into pubs or other public places. Or of course where there is livestock.

Mish, you know me better than this, stop being obtuse.

I don't know howOH always calls the dogs, because I am only with him at weekends. But at those times he calls them the same as I do, except his whistling is crap compared to mine! He uses the word Come, followed by his pathetic attempt at a whistle!

I have different types of whistle, all done through my front teeth. A long piercing whistle, if my first "toots" have not succeeded. I say the dog's name first, just once, to get his attention, followed by the Come word, and if necessary the toots, and then the long piercing whistle if I don't get a result. With Tai, I get a result, Gucci, mmm, sometimes, but he is not my dog, so I am not so concerned about him, it's up to my daughter to train her own dog. Ben, now, following the dreadfully cruel abusive treatment that he has had to suffer twice, always responds now, looks up at his name usually, responds to the Come word, because that is the trigger for a treat, and then if he hasn't already broken into a canter to come back to me, he gets the long piercing whistle.

I don't believe in repetition, if something hasn't worked once, then don't repeat it on that particular occasion.

Doubtless, everyone including your good self, will pick holes and tear MY preferred routine apart - I don't care, it is what I do, and it works, so stick that in your pipe and smoke it !!



AT least i HAVEN'T lost my sense of humour!!

O **** !! I forgot the toots !!

Even after all these posts I am still of the opinion that e-collars are a cruel option.

I still also feel that if the owner cannot train a dog by positive means they have failed. And yes, I include me in this.

So I feel the answer is to become better versed in positive training techniques, to understand the particular dog properly and work with him, to not be impatient and expect instant results and better management in the meantime.

...but training ALL training is about repetition.....

I see now why you feel you failed at everything in the 6 months.

Thats where you failed then, dogs dont learn things over night.. Repetition for me is important in helping the dog understand what is being asked of it. You cant try once and give up, trying a new method each time. Thats madness.

Dogs are dogs I do not believe in wrapping them in cottonwool!!

We nearly lost Tai back in the summer. He loves to go crashing through the undergrowth doing doggie stuff. He impaled himself on a branch or stick lying on the ground which imbedded itself deep inside him, having run in well over 12 inches. How the stick missed all his vital organs, we shall never know, but it did. He had to have massive surgery, his abdomen and rib cage had to be opened up like a side of beef, and the brilliant vet had to work her way along the path of the branch or stick to make sure that she got out every little bit, packing it with antibiotic powder as she went. She saved Tai's life.

Do I let Tai still run through the woods, bounding through the undergrowth? Of course I do! He would be miserable if I wrapped him in cottonwool and kept him on a lead just in case he got impaled on another branch.

I do the best for my dogs, they are all insured, they have the best food, they get walked twice a day for miles, they dominate our lives, yet I will not try and protect them from all danger - just in case.

I will take sensible precautions of course, but I believe it to be cruel in the extreme to confine dogs to a life on the lead, that is my opinion and I am entitled to it.