True , but the the owner be it clueless or lazy is still part of the problem, add CM to the equation and you get what we see on the programme, end results, dogs are put through extreme stress and discomfort by CM, who is spouting all his dominance rubbish, dogs suffer , programee gets ratings, and CM make s fortune.

He does not fix or address the problem, he shuts a dog down, into a mode of fear based complience, the danger with that is you have an owner who thinks he has fixed their dog, and a dog that still has its issues, but are submerged under the suface , which will boil over once again, ! which in many cases the dog is then PTS, !

It's not so much the clueless owner who's willing to put in the time & effort to find out that's the problem; it's the lazy, haven't got the time, got to watch Corrie/Eastenders/Big Bruva owner who are unwilling to put the dog first that's the problem.

It looks as though you've been copying and pasting from the e-collar thread! In how many cases did the dog revert to it's unwanted behaviour? Can you name them? How many were pts? Don't just throw vague accusations around to satisfy your prejudices.

And how did my expression of exasperation at the behaviour of one owner turn into this anyway?

if it even was just a case of making owners think dogs could be fixed so easily I wouldnt have so much of a problem

I simply cannot see why dog lovers can watch a person put a noose round a dogs neck and pull it until the dog dosnt fight any more
who takes a scared dog and then makes it more scared so it cannot offer any behaviours
Who alows stooge dogs and other animanls to be stressed and even bitten in the name of his 'training'

It's not a noose as you very well know. A noose has strong connotations of racial segregation and hanging. He does not hang dogs.

I don't think that you genuinely believe that he deliberately allows dogs to be bitten as part of any training.

I'm aware that you don't like him, but deliberate misrepresentaion of what you see and the use of tabloid style emotive language is not constructive criticsm.

Unfortunately it sounds like that person is just mimicking what he's seen Cesar do on his show. I've seen him lift a dog up with its front feet off the ground on a choke collar. I personally call that brutal.

And I DO blame Cesar for people imitating him. He bills himself as some great dog trainer (*scoff*) and so people do what he does because he convinces them it will work.

I've gotten this impression as well. He reminds me of the guy at the bar who hits on every woman he can find, but secretly hates them. He's just hitting on them and sleeping with them to have power over them.

I think CM has power issues (Napoleon complex maybe...lol) and dogs are easier for him to control than people.

But a good part of the problem comes about from a TV show that basically shows those owners "hey this can be accomplished in just 30 minutes!" Yes owners will be lazy, but having a TV show that's supporting that laziness and making them believe there's a quick fix is not helping.

Have you watched the Jonbee episode? I would call that "hanging a dog." He lifts it up so it's front feet are off the ground with the choke chain tightened around the dog's neck, yes like a noose. He does this until the dog cannot breathe and then released it and shoves it over on its side.

And what does he call it? Calm submissive.

HARDLY. The dog is shut down and gasping for air. I don't call that training, I call that torturing. And trying to say "oh a noose has racial connotations" is not quite accurate. Plenty of people were killed by hangings a long time ago. It was a fairly common way to implement the death sentence.

LOL!! my copying and pasting, if you take the time to look back in the archives of this board, will have come from my views spoken on this man, in ALL the threads where he crops up,

I am not throwing any prejudicial statistics anywhere, in this and other threads you will see where members have given data that supports the "backlash" of CM actions .

You only see what the programme whats to show, the episode of "shadow" (I think), if I remember right is a classic case, the dog ended up being PTS after he was subjected to CM .

You start a thread on CM, giving him support, and you will get a reaction!

Maybe instead of throwing your toys out of the pram, because you are getting replies that you dont like, you should take the time to look in the archives for the type of reaction you will get when you mention CM!!

You will find the majority of members here do not support "dominance theories" or the related misconception of "give a dog an inch and he will take over the world" thinking , that CM advocates !!

He gives a fair impression of it then.

When you slip a noose around a dogs neck, and lift its feet of the ground restricting the intake of air to the airways, it looks suspiciously like hanging to me

Misinterpretation is in the eye of the beholder, and to many misinterpreted his actions as acceptable