Aha!! I just knew it would be soooo different if the shoe was on the other foot. I'll take it then that what you do with your dog "acceptable risk" Just like those who own Race Horses.

No, to me it doesnt matter whether a Horse is used in sport, not if its owner has purchased it for that reason, not at all.

There is another point of view though, does the owner of said racehorse really care about the horse, the way the average owner cares about their dog/cat etc..? Most owners of racehorses send them to trainers (obviously ) and then its the grooms who develop the bond as they ride them out every day and take care of them... Maybe most racehorse owners care about their horses to a certain extent, but as there is no great bond as they don't see them everyday, its not the same risk for them. Unless of course they own and train it, then they value the horse alot more.... Just a thought..

What I really want to ask is all the pro racers, do you think the excessive whipping is really neccessary? Or whipping at all for that matter? After seeing what the winning horse was like when he finished and knowing the jockey got a ban for excessive whipping.

Well I haven't researched it---have you?

Unless any of us have access to figures it is educated guesses only---as it often is if people can't/don't/won't research.

My educated guess is that service dogs enhance the lives of the people they work with and in some cases prevent people from dying.

Doesn't make me like what might happen to failed or used ones any more.

rune

I didn't realise it was the jockey of the winning horse---why on earth wasn't the horse stripped of the race????

Oh I know----it would have screwed the betting and the bookmakers and all the people who bet on him!!

Didn't someone use how much the jockey cared for the horse in a post??? To defend the sport!!

That is APPALLING!!!

rune

That's OK Azz, I dont mind you being shocked at all

You want to cherry pick "exploitation" I dont, we exploit ALL our domesticated and undomesticated animals for our own ends...its a simple as that.

Some we wrap up in ribbons some we dont, but the facts are we keep them for our own needs..NOT there`s!



I find your response as odd as you find mine.

I stated facts, I did not say I LIKED those facts,

Don't dictate to me what I should or should not do.



Cant they, a horse that is bred to compete (ALL disciplines) will have a good life , regardless of what you may think, at the end of its competitive life it will either be moved on to a companion home or retired to its field.

Exactly the same will happen to a service dog!!

So why it it different, they both do a job, they both may get moved on (more likely the dog) and both have been discarded.

I wont place bets on which will suffer the distress of being moved from a home more, can you ?



So its OK to discard these noble dogs after a life time of service in a one to one home... simply because they "make a difference"!

Trouble is Pidge those who read it, thought it was exactly that! you could not respond to the other thread when you were called out, so you reopened another to make your point.

Hence it was locked!


As with "showing"............what does the show dog gain from being shown??




No, the blind and disabled have been around far longer than service dogs, and have managed well without killing themselves.

Service dog help enrich their lives, they dont keep them alive.



I dont think devaluing them was the intention, simply pointing out that they are not house pets ,



No, excessive use of the whip is not acceptable, not sure if anyone has said it is.

BTW, I know plenty of people who keep race/competition horses in livery, and they love them as much as the next person.

Such hypocrisy here , so much cherry picking going on its laughable,


Its OK to exploit A,B,C for this but its not OK to exploit for that!


Its OK to discard a service dog, but its not OK to discard race horse.

Its OK to risk out dogs on agility courses, in the park , doing a or b service work, but its not OK to risk a horse that may injure sometimes fatally competing.

Its OK to breed dogs for competition , But its not OK to breed horses for competition, what does either species get out of it.

We do it for ourselves not for the animals!!

Sorry..this is going to be controversial...but I am not convinced those sort of dogs are a good idea, purely for the dogs. My concern is the dogs never have downtime, unless they are removed from the person they care for.
The little girl on Crufts who took her dog into school was a perfect example of it for me, don't get me wrong, lovely thing for the dog to do...but when does the dog get to fully relax? It is with the child 24/7...we wouldn't ask a human to work 24/7. No matter how nice a life the dog may have on the surface, I do worry about the level of constant and quiet stress it may be put under.
If you knew Loki could fit at any moment and it was up to you to spot the signs and stop it happening...how stressed would you get, if YOU had to be with him 24/7 watching him so you could alert people if he was going to fit?

I know it's a controverisal view, but assistance dogs like that worry me...and diabetes is rife in my family.
I have no doubt a lot of service dogs enhance lives but there are some who are treated very much like a piece of equipment.
As for rehoming...the assistance dog charities breed the dogs so surely they should monitor the rehomed ones on a regular basis to make sure all is well? Isn't that what a good breeder does????

I wouldn't imagine there are any stats to prove that suicide rates or death rates fall in those with assistance dogs, but I am sure that some assistance dogs may have saved their owners lives, certainly I have heard a few stories, all anecdotal though...

Very good points.

I agree that there's a helluva difference in the relationship between a pet dog & its owners when the dog is living in the house with that family, interacting with them every day & being part of that family to ...... the relationship between a race horse & it's often extremely rich owner who probably only sees the horse on race days or the odd visit to the stabe, & effectively has absolutely no relationship (other than a financial one) with the horse at all!! So how anyone can be silly enough to try & compare how race horses are treated by their owners to how pet dogs are treated by their owners, is completely beyond me!! They are not comparable at all. Now a "pet" horse as in your circumstances is different as you do have that bond & relationship with your horse.

There may possibly be a bond or relationship between the racehorse & the groom or stable lad that cares for the horse, but, unfortunately, they are not the ones making the decisions for that horse over which races the horse should run, how often it should run, whether it should be kept or sold etc.

As for the whipping of a horse, no, absolutely not, no way, ever, ever. How can it be called excessive? Any whipping is bad ~ it causes pain, it is cruel & it is only done to make the horse run faster. i can think of no excuse at all for whipping a horse ever.

Answering Rambles!

I half agree with your first point---but I also know that mothers wake automatically if their child is in trouble and I have to wake if Champa fits. I also wake if one of mine is in trouble and needs to go out.

I think you develop a sort of sixth sense sometimes and hopefully that is what has happened with the diabetic alert dog. I do think she is amazing and I hope they keep her forever...........

rune

Such hypocrisy here , so much cherry picking going on its laughable,


Its OK to exploit A,B,C for this but its not OK to exploit for that!


Its OK to discard a service dog, but its not OK to discard race horse.

Its OK to risk out dogs on agility courses, in the park , doing a or b service work, but its not OK to risk a horse that may injure sometimes fatally competing.

Its OK to breed dogs for competition , But its not OK to breed horses for competition, what does either species get out of it.

We do it for ourselves not for the animals!![/QUOTE]


Everyone has lines and limits to the cruelty or perceived cruelty that they see around them.

For those involved in this debate the line is drawn at the death of two horses and the horrific falls of many others.

I am unaware of any dogs who have died during agility (I do know a few who have been temporarily injured). If we had to put a line on dogs to keep them on the course and whip them to go faster around it it would maybe be a valid comparison.

Since finding out that it was the winning jockey with the ban on whipping I am even more amazed that anyone could support it.

rune

Yes, I know what you mean...but it does also mean that you never actually get a decent nights kip!!! (Says she who has been on the sofa all night as Cosmo isn't very well....)

The last part is indeed the question....