Why would I want to do that? If I had to I would - in other words, if Ben had needed that level of correction, then I would have first tested it on myself.

But he didn't. He has probably only ever been zapped around 5 times, maybe less. He has not had to be zapped for a very long time, he wears the collar but it is not used. Sometimes OH does not even have the controller with him, sometimes he forgets to put the collar on, the collar is really rather extraneous now simply because Ben now comes when he is called. So why would we want to use it.

I am struggling, realy struggling, to understand why people cannot accept this fact

THAT BEN DOES NOT HAVE TO BE CORRECTED WITH THE E COLLAR NOW, AND HAS NOT BEEN FOR A LONG TIME.

Comprenez?

Sorry if my posts are a bit hostile, but I am beginning to get really fed up of having to repeat myself over and over and over again.

I agree with you Julie

Absolutely not - because Ben won't kick off with a calm dog.

And thank you very much for your lovely comment about how I have no idea how dogs really tick. That is extraordinary, considering how I am so much in tune with them. Several dogs I know are extremely aggressive and unpredictable with strangers, but have no issues with me. I tend to attract dogs to me like rats to the pied piper. I am a very doggy person, and particularly a very wolfdoggy person and although no-one can ever claim to know everything about dogs, you learn and learn every day, or you should do, I would class myself as a knowledgeable dog owner.

Your last remark just demonstrates how you have not listened to anything I have said ... I have repeatedly said you would NOT use an e collar in a confrontational situation.

Why would you want to do that? Well, you said you had tried it on yourself, but surely it cannot compare if not on the neck, as that is where your dog wears it.

Why have the controller with you at all if it is not to be used.

Not sure why your are being hostile or using other lamguages, but the question was perfectly valid.

For the last time!! We used the e collar to train a recall NOT for the aggression.

TBF I had read it that way as well. You were setting up your nervous agressive dog with an agressive do using an e-collar. Maybe I misread it, but in all honesty I skim read very long posts

You had better tell this to Ben then, because clearly he totally disagrees with you.

Interesting, some of the most aversive trainers I've ever met insist that it's massively counter productive to use aversive techniques when training recall.

the long line that you mentioned I should use

Hello Lou - now I know who "Lou" is - I assumed you were Lou Castle.

To answer your last question, I would ignore the law. Ben wears an e collar, it is not used, sometimes he does not wear it at all. There is no need for us to use it because his recall is now perfect.

You would never know he is wearing a collar because he has an extremely heavy double wolf coat - it is hidden beneath his furry neck!!

What would happen if someone DID see that Ben was wearing an e collar and reported us to whoever you report these things to? We would most likely be fined - so what? I care about my dog and his health, wealth and happiness, and would have to cough up - although if OH did not have the controller with him when spotted, then i do not think there would be a case against us. In other words, if it does become illegal, then Ben will wear the collar but we won't have the controller with us.