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Besoeker
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05-03-2018, 05:48 PM
Originally Posted by Trouble View Post
Right you wouldn't shut a dog in but you'd cage a wild animal, and that's not cruel because?
I made no mention of cruelty.
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Trouble
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05-03-2018, 06:56 PM
Originally Posted by Besoeker View Post
Totally agree.
I would not remotely consider puting any dog I've had in a cage. If ours wants out he gently taps the door Same in a hotel or a holiday cottage. Shutting them in a cage, or crate if you prefer to call it that, is something for wild animals, not a domestic pet.
Yet you bought a crate so you must have intended using it.
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Trouble
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05-03-2018, 09:22 PM
Originally Posted by Besoeker View Post
"Yet you bought a crate so you must have intended using it."

I explained why we got it. Seems like you missed that or you wouldn't have commented as you did. We did try to get him, Max, used to it so that it wouldn't be so traumatic when we had to use in earnest. Favourite, toy, blanket, food and water bowls, he just wasn't interested. So your "invariably" claim is just plain wrong.
Oh I guessed you'd tried and failed to train him to get used to it by your attitude towards crates but the fact remains you bought one intending to use it which made a nonsense of what you said in response to WinstonZ.
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Trouble
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05-03-2018, 09:25 PM
Originally Posted by Besoeker View Post
If you'd said "many" instead of "invariably" i wouldn't have commented on your inaccuracy.

But now you've made me think about it. I'm not sure if it's many either. I've never put a dog in a cage. I walk a lot and, of course, you meet and chat with other dog owners/dog walkers. I don't know of any that have a cage for their dogs. Nor any of my co-workers - and they range from Yorkies to the Great Dane my service manager has.

In short, I have every reason to think that mine nowhere close to being a unique no-cage canine.
I never claimed yours was a unique no crate canine, why would I when my own dogs have a choice of where to sleep, maybe oh pedantic one it's you who needs to read what is written rather than making assumptions.
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WinstonZ
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05-03-2018, 10:30 PM
Originally Posted by Besoeker View Post
Totally agree.
I would not remotely consider puting any dog I've had in a cage. If ours wants out he gently taps the door Same in a hotel or a holiday cottage. Shutting them in a cage, or crate if you prefer to call it that, is something for wild animals, not a domestic pet.
Wild animals are actually not put in crates typically, they used to but old fashioned zoos with cages are for the most part gone. Typically wild animals get a natural setting to roam in, yet the people here actually brag and encourage putting dogs in cages...............

It's sad, more for people who should know better but choose to cage their property.

It's a life, and no life should be caged, certainly not your best friend
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WinstonZ
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05-03-2018, 10:35 PM
Originally Posted by Trouble View Post
What tosh of course some dogs have a choice over whether to use the crate or not, you leave the crate in situ with the door open and invariably find the dog asleep in the crate even when they have other beds available to them. Or leave it in situ with the door closed and find the dog pawing at the crate to get in. Your dog may not like to use a crate but that doesn't mean no dog likes to.
The dog crapped in it's crate because he doesn't yet have control of his bowels, he wasn't showing his displeasure at being shut in the crate. No doubt if the crate was open he would have left his sleeping area to poop, but as he couldn't, he didn't. Yes it's unnatural to poop in it's bed so why do it to express displeasure, he did it cos he had no choice.
So you are actually saying that if I bought a crate and left it on the floor near my bed that my dogs would choose to sleep in the cage and not sleep on the warm soft bed, head sometimes on my pillow and sometimes covered with my blanket?

Seriously you do not know any better and neither do your dogs. Let me educate you, dogs get arthritis from sleeping in cold hard crates where they can not move properly. In fact the only place I know that crates are used is on puppy farms.
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Chris
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05-03-2018, 11:24 PM
Firstly, I agree that a 13 week old puppy has a way to go before he's fully toilet trained so keep up the toilet training routine and you should find that things get better. Don't have your pup sleeping on just the plastic cage floor, use some old towels or vet bedding that is easily washed so that he is comfortable.

The old cage/crate debate

To a dog, a house must seem just the same as a cage. Four walls, no way out. Many dogs find small spaces within those walls to settle down, ie under coffee tables, chairs etc. They like the 'denning' experience.

A cage is just another small den. Of course, we must ensure that the cage is big enough so that they can stand, sit, lay down comfortably, but once that criteria is met, it is just another den or room to them.

Do I use a cage? Not now. For the first 12 months Rosie had a cage with the door closed at night until I was sure she was house trained. The cage remained for a further 12 months with the door left open and she chose to sleep in it. Then she discovered my bed - enough said
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Besoeker
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05-03-2018, 11:26 PM
Originally Posted by WinstonZ View Post

It's a life, and no life should be caged, certainly not your best friend
I totally agree.
I would not remotely consider it.

I kinda feel the same way about leads/leashes.
Mine goes without every day unless we are on streets where there is road traffic. It's just precautionary. He knows manners.
I trust my dog and it is mutual.
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WinstonZ
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05-03-2018, 11:27 PM
Originally Posted by Chris View Post
Firstly, I agree that a 13 week old puppy has a way to go before he's fully toilet trained so keep up the toilet training routine and you should find that things get better. Don't have your pup sleeping on just the plastic cage floor, use some old towels or vet bedding that is easily washed so that he is comfortable.

The old cage/crate debate

To a dog, a house must seem just the same as a cage. Four walls, no way out. Many dogs find small spaces within those walls to settle down, ie under coffee tables, chairs etc. They like the 'denning' experience.

A cage is just another small den. Of course, we must ensure that the cage is big enough so that they can stand, sit, lay down comfortably, but once that criteria is met, it is just another den or room to them.

Do I use a cage? Not now. For the first 12 months Rosie had a cage with the door closed at night until I was sure she was house trained. The cage remained for a further 12 months with the door left open and she chose to sleep in it. Then she discovered my bed - enough said
My last pup was toilet trained in one day. The problem with using crates is that once they are out of the crate they poop, right in your kitchen or living room. Now if you do not use a crate in the first place, then the dog learns that outside the home is where to poop as the home becomes the den. People who use cages teach the dog that the cage is home and everything outside the cage is poopdom.
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Gnasher
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06-03-2018, 07:39 AM
For what it's worth, my experience of crates is that they can be a very useful tool to use for instance if you have to go and leave your dog home alone. The cage appears as a den to our dogs as if you think about it wolves dig dens and live underground when giving birth and to raise their cubs in. A crate can for some dogs be a sanctuary, an underground den. My dog Ben has a very large crate tailor made for the back of our Discovery and we have had a 6" foam bed nade for it with a plastic cover. He lies in there sometimes when we are out in the caravan for ages .. with the back door open unless its v cold. It is very large ... fills the whole of the back of the Disco. I think as long as the crate is large enough for the dog to stretch out fully prone, turn around etc in comfort for short periods a crate can be very useful.
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