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Chris
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27-08-2016, 08:02 PM
Originally Posted by landseer View Post
I can't wrap my head around the idea of having to use a lure to get a dog to do something it's going to do anyway...? A dog is going to go from standing to sit - why not reinforce the action of sitting when it's associated with the sound of my voice? Why do I need to lure the dog to sit?

Basic commands of sit, down (basically prone position), lay (on their side) etc - whatever terms you want to use are things that the dog does anyway. Dogs will go from stand, to sit to down to lay down, just capitalize on it. They learn so much faster.
Why not lure? It's quick, it's efficient and it's more fun for the dog.

It's also easier and more efficient when they associate good things happening with what they are doing when you want to introduce the more challenging requests/commands.

Once the dog has cottoned on to a new command, the treats are quickly phased out so what's the problem?
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Gnasher
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27-08-2016, 08:04 PM
Originally Posted by Swifty View Post
Man has not been man for 40,000 years, so please check your dates.
It is considered that homo sapiens - modern man - has been around for 200,000 years - originating in Africa in the area between the Tigris and the Euphrates rivers. There were several "waves" of "humans" that spread out across the world, which presumably didn't make it to the point that they successfully bred for any considerable amount of time. Apparently through DNA everybody on this earth can be traced back to about 200 people from one of these "waves" of migration.

Some sources say that homo sapiens and wolf first linked up 40,000 odd years ago, some say it was as long ago as 100,000. Either way, some experts credit the success of the human race as being down to the amazing helping hand that domesticated wolves, ie dogs, gave to our ancestors.

I suggest you check your dates before posting inaccuracies
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Dibbythedog
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27-08-2016, 11:10 PM
Originally Posted by landseer View Post
Dogs take the sound of "sit" coming out of your mouth and eventually associate it with the action of sitting. Always use the same tone and pitch of voice, and use the tone/pitch that you would use out in the field to command the dog - and dogs will get it quickly.
When I train a puppy to sit, there's no lure, there's no excitement generated - puppy is calm.

It may take 5 or ten minutes, but when I'm kneeled down with a puppy in front of me - at some point the puppy is going to sit down anyway. It's a default behavior - and it's repeatedly hearing sit in the same pitch and tone. When the dog sits, bit of praise - repeat. The dog just learned to associate a sound coming out of my mouth with a default action it's going to do anyway.
I'm not clear on what you are doing .
You kneel in front of your pup , you say sit and eventually the pups sits and then you praise him?
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landseer
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27-08-2016, 11:21 PM
Originally Posted by Dibbythedog View Post
I'm not clear on what you are doing .
You kneel in front of your pup , you say sit and eventually the pups sits and then you praise him?
Pretty much - you're making an association with a default behaviour. Try it with a puppy - rinse and repeat. They pick it up pretty quick. No treat for a distraction. There's alot of default behaviours that dogs just know and do, capitalize on them.



Why should little bits of training behaviour have to be fun for a puppy? The puppy is going to have fun outside. It's going to have fun around other poeple, it's going to have fun with dogs and kids, cats everything. It's called socializing.
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Dibbythedog
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28-08-2016, 12:08 AM
Originally Posted by Dibbythedog View Post
I'm not clear on what you are doing .
You kneel in front of your pup , you say sit and eventually the pups sits and then you praise him?
Originally Posted by landseer View Post
Pretty much - you're making an association with a default behaviour. Try it with a puppy - rinse and repeat. They pick it up pretty quick. No treat for a distraction. There's alot of default behaviours that dogs just know and do, capitalize on them.
For an pup, or dog or cat for that matter, to make the association between the command and the behaviour , the command eg sit should be said when the pup actually sits, when his bum hits the floor.
Its all about timing .
This is why clicker training is so successful . The click marks the exact behaviour you want and tells the dog he has got it right and a reward is coming , this reinforces the behaviour.

To wait, as you said earlier , for perhaps five minutes or so , after you have said Sit , is too long a gap.

You actually said in you other post that eventually they get the meaning, why make it so hard for them?

Praise too , is just words so how do you get your pup to understand what "good boy" means or what ever you say .
Praise is a secondary reinforcer, it has no meaning to an animal, he or she has to learn what it means.
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landseer
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28-08-2016, 01:08 AM
Originally Posted by Dibbythedog View Post
For an pup, or dog or cat for that matter, to make the association between the command and the behaviour , the command eg sit should be said when the pup actually sits, when his bum hits the floor.
Its all about timing .
This is why clicker training is so successful . The click marks the exact behaviour you want and tells the dog he has got it right and a reward is coming , this reinforces the behaviour.

To wait, as you said earlier , for perhaps five minutes or so , after you have said Sit , is too long a gap.

You actually said in you other post that eventually they get the meaning, why make it so hard for them?

Praise too , is just words so how do you get your pup to understand what "good boy" means or what ever you say .
Praise is a secondary reinforcer, it has no meaning to an animal, he or she has to learn what it means.
That's not what I said earlier - you're repeating the command every 5 to 10 seconds until the puppy sits - say nothing else. And it generally doesn't take 5 minutes, when the puppy sits - reinforce the command then give affection. Puppy is likely sitting there thinking what just happened, I'm liking it. Rinse and repeat and you'll be surprised how fast that little bum plants on the floor after the command is given. Little bit of patience is all it takes.
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Swifty
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28-08-2016, 01:36 AM
Get over it, my dog was trained in this command in under 60 seconds. Though I have no proof, this might well be a World record. However if the rear is not guided down, the legs will raise the dog to my hand. However since I only did this twice all totaled who cares. You can't even find a book that says that this is possible, and I fully understand if you do not believe it, but I could care less because it is true.
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Swifty
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28-08-2016, 01:38 AM
There are no records for man at this time, none, so again you are fantasizing.
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Swifty
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28-08-2016, 01:41 AM
No click or reward is needed, except good boy or good girl............ I guess the good boy or good girl is the same as the click, but dogs should not work for food
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Swifty
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28-08-2016, 01:46 AM
Repeating a command every 5 to 10 seconds would sound like a broken record and be silly and confusing. By the way every 5 to 10 seconds for 5 minutes is 30 to 60 times nonstop.............Nutty in the first.

Think before you lie
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