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Swifty
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27-08-2016, 12:52 PM
Yes Carol chasing and finding prey is the premier competitive training for a scenthound. Unless you enter your dogs in donut finding competitions.
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Swifty
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27-08-2016, 12:54 PM
A competitive trainer would never think of calling a dog off of a chase. That is like sending your children to school and not letting them read.
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Dibbythedog
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27-08-2016, 01:08 PM
I can't hardly be bothered to answer this one .

Perhaps the OP should read up about Positive reinforcement and learn something .
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Swifty
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27-08-2016, 01:17 PM
How do you do positive reinforcement with food while you are in the field with a working dog who is NOT SUPPOSED TO RETURN TO YOU FOR FOOD BUT MUST CONTINUE WORKING? The answer is that the positive reinforcement comes from the trainers voice alone, and this situation in a well trained and INTELLIGENT dog is far more productive than bologna.

That said there are very well trained dogs that are actually rather ignorant and need the food in order to be able to raise their paw and shake. Whether this actually represents a well trained dog is a matter of opinion.
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Chris
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27-08-2016, 01:57 PM
Originally Posted by Swifty View Post
A competitive trainer would never think of calling a dog off of a chase. That is like sending your children to school and not letting them read.
and just as we don't (or shouldn't) allow our children to read things unsuitable for them, we don't (or shouldn't) allow our dogs to chase as and when it wants to. Both have highly undesirable results.

Even the best trained hunting dog should be trained to be called off the chase when the handler asks.
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Trouble
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27-08-2016, 02:03 PM
Every dog should be trained to call off chasing anything when the handler says or do we just let them run across roads, through people's gardens etc just because they are chasing.
Tbh who cares anyway, I train my dogs using my methods because they live with me, I don't want them chasing Deer or sheep and I won't allow them to do so, they are trained to ignore whatever I say. You can do what you want just don't tell me you are right and I am wrong. Horses for courses and all that .
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Swifty
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27-08-2016, 02:23 PM
But should a hunting dog only be trusted to stop when the handler has food?

The answer is no, which is why food should not be the goal of the dog in the first place. The sound of a handlers voice or hand signal is all that should be needed, ever. Food bribes are for dumb dogs as dumb dogs will not do anything if the food is not the goal
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Swifty
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27-08-2016, 02:25 PM
Originally Posted by Trouble View Post
Every dog should be trained to call off chasing anything when the handler says or do we just let them run across roads, through people's gardens etc just because they are chasing.
Tbh who cares anyway, I train my dogs using my methods because they live with me, I don't want them chasing Deer or sheep and I won't allow them to do so, they are trained to ignore whatever I say. You can do what you want just don't tell me you are right and I am wrong. Horses for courses and all that .
I am not telling you that you are wrong, I am telling you that your dogs do not do anything for you. All your dogs care about is the food, and this is the problem.
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Chris
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27-08-2016, 02:33 PM
Originally Posted by Swifty View Post
But should a hunting dog only be trusted to stop when the handler has food?

The answer is no, which is why food should not be the goal of the dog in the first place. The sound of a handlers voice or hand signal is all that should be needed, ever. Food bribes are for dumb dogs as dumb dogs will not do anything if the food is not the goal
Again, you do not understand the principles behind training that incorporates a variety of rewards to achieve.

No the dog (any dog) should not be trusted only to stop when the handler has food. However, food is a useful reward to train the dog what is expected of it. Once the dog knows that, the food is phased out.

As a dog trainer, you should be well aware of that?
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Swifty
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27-08-2016, 02:42 PM
Actually you are right to a point. With my current pup I used bologna to train my dog to sit. This process took under 60 seconds. I pushed his behind down as I said sit, then gave him the bologna with praise. Then once he stood I held another piece of meat out and said sit as I raised the bologna. He sat, the next time all I had to do was say sit and tickle him. So I did use food twice in one training session when he was 9 weeks old. It has never been needed again.

Now my female will refuse anything when in the field, I took beef and liver. All she wants to do is trail a living liver she will and had actually refused all food for training purposes in the field.

Should I change something? I think not.
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