I did more or less totally train one of my dogs by John Fishers book Dog wise. It was before clickers but very similar. He did a lot of backchaining which I could relate to as it is the basis of so much teaching disabled kids.

I really liked him.

rune

Rune, was this before or after John Fisher suggested the way to deal with an aggressive dog in training classes was to put it in the middle of a circle of others dogs, and basically force it into a submissive role? Eventually, the dog in the middle of the circle will make every attempt to escape from it, and the process is complete. It has been subdued by the pack. [From an edition of Think Dog, first printed 2001, reprinted 2002, pages 116-117, for John Fisher's actual description]

Afterwards---LOL.

He was astute enough to realise that some stuff he suggested didn't work----he actually didn't say that exactly as I remember it but I wouldn't be sure as its an old book.

My understanding at the time (and it was long ago) was that the dogs on the OUTSIDE were the submissive non threatening ones and that the dog on the inside would eventually realise this. Certainly that is what I saw done on a couple of occassions.

It still doesn't always work though.

rune

He was pretty heavy on pack dynamics too, and roaring at dogs if they didn't give things up - must have been quite a conversion. Probably saw the way the market was going... He wouldn't be allowed to be a member of the APDT nowadays with the philosophy he had then. And also his aversive invention, the training discs would render him ineligible, never mind the encouragement to put your dog off stuff by spraying bitter apple and it running about, as he put it, "spitting and spluttering".

Why would John Fisher suggest putting submissive dogs round an aggressive one - would seem a very strange thing to do, even for John Fisher at that time, to expose submissive dogs to a dog with aggressive energies.

So many trainers have come & gone over the years. Btw, what is 'roaring'? Lol.

Not read all the posts, but saw John Fisher mentioned. John was very forward thinking for his time and with the information that was then available. I think it was his last book where he commented on rank reduction protocols saying they actually meant 'diddly squat' to the dog.

I think the thing I liked most about the guy was his willingness to admit his previous thoughts were suspect and to move on from them in light of new research.

Good guy taken before his time.

It means you SHOUT REALLY LOUD at it, Dogdragoness. John Fisher put it in capitals too, so I think he meant it!

I think his aversive dog training disks are still on sale, Brierley. I saw them them being used inappropriately with a very sensitive dog. It ran away, and they couldn't get it near the place again. Perhaps his estate should be withdrawing them from the market? I suppose they can't because other people can design them now too, but they always refer back to them being developed by John Fisher - they're like an albatross around his neck, really.

Ok another dumb question on the orginal topic, I have seen posts saying Ceaser kicks dogs, but I have watched his show a lot for reference purposes... that & there is so little dog/pet related stuff on TV lately since Animal Planet became 'suprisingly human' that I'll watch anything lmbo. But I have never sen him kick a dog before, I have seen him push or bump the dog with his foot, but I've never seen an outright kick.

I suppose it would depend on whether it were possible (a lot of discs with different manufacturers). I wonder if he retained the rights to them

Also, of course, his family may not be as well versed in dog behaviour/training as he was himself so see nothing wrong in them