Just looking through posts noticed the one about KC Bulldog which is of most interest to me personaly We have 2 Victorian Bulldogs , The idea being to take the breed back to a 1890`s type (fitter healthier than present Kc although i believe they have changed the stanard ?) 1st 3 pics Tilly around a year and 2nd 3 Minty about 7 months

i did'nt know they did artificial insemination and cescearian sections a hundred years ago!!!!! ????? because i dont know of any bulldogs that can breed and whelp by themself nowadays. a mate of mine had 2 bulldogs from different breeders, one was dead at 18 months, the other at 3years of age. they sound like a good improvment on the original, dont they.

very well said, but i think you will have to get a time machine and bring jackbox back a 100 years to prove your point, i used to breed a show staffs(not any more because the way the breed is going) and now i have a bullmastiff(my 3rd one) and an american bulldog, i know what your talking about,you are very good at putting your points across, keep up the good post's.

Cesarean sections will have been around since birth was invented, it is not a 21 century invention... as for artificial insemination, well who knows, people will find a means for an end..regardless the century they live in... but that is a whole different debate, and as I was not around a 100 yrs ago, I will bow to your knowlagde on that

Although not sure where artificial insemination and c-sections are relervent to the Bulldog 100 yrs ago??


Not sure why you feel the need to be so sarcastic in your posts, its seems to be the theme that runs through your postings


You may not know any Bulldogs that can self whelp, but dont generalise the breed on your limited experience.

Bulldogs like any other breed will have good and bad breeders, it is down to the buyer to research and buy from those who are dedicated to producing healthy self whelp lines , and there are many out there if you care to look, instead of simply bashing a breed for the sake of it.

Have just in the last 2 mins done a search for you, and came up with 3 litters on the ground now, who have come from self whelping bitches... all KC registerd, all from healthy well breed bitches!!



Again the sarcasm s flowing from you, you dont seem to be able to post without it spilling from your person

So why not enlighten us to the down fall of the Staffie, funny from the breeders I know in this breed, I see healthy fabulous dogs living healthy lives

Must admit i did smile at sarsasm from Mr Dardar Such an open mind !!! I didna say my my Victorian bull dogs are like springer spaniels just that the idea behind the breed is to create a fitter healthier Bulldog than Kc standard as is/was !! . Both my dogs come from a natural self tieing matings (diff dam/sire) and neither bitch had C section birth younger dog came from litter of 11 , unfortunately 2 were lost due to breach but 9 survivors !! The older one is excercised between 1 1/2 and 3 hours a day the younger one obviously less at moment due to age (off lead ) depending on how much i time have . Tell me Mr Dadar !!! is trying to go backwards not a step FORWARDS !!!:Shock /Horror!!! shock: If ye really feel that strongly about it you should get off your high horse out ya glass house and buy a mongrel they are healthier after all !!! that way you are way beyond reproach !! Its not what ya said mate Just ya smug sarcasm !! LOL Mikey

Just as well because the whole raison d'etre for the Victorian Bulldog validates Dardar's argument.

Raison d`Entre ? Think i already stated idea behind VB (improve the Kc standard Bulldog longer nose ,longer legs , smaller head in proportion to body ) ? Dadar just states doesnt know any BULLDOGS that dont recieve artificial insemination to conceive or dont have c section births,implying this is how it is and thats it !! end of!! which isn`t the case, he just lumps all breeds of bulldog together in an ill researched statement.As ive already said my dogs were concieved by naturally self tieing and self whelped so that sweeping statement is wrong to begin with ! As for breathing as i said its about improving the bulldog! not creating a bulldog that can run round like a spinger spaniel or race like a Grey hound they were never meant to do that were they !!! If you saw my dogs in the flesh you might just be suprised at how well they cope with excercise

As I've said before, unfortunately, there isn't any comprehensive health survey data available that documents breeds from their inception to the present day. So, we have two choices:

1) Look at current data and take into account modern(ish) scientific theory. Presume potential for health within breeds has not been reached. Improve through modifying standards, improving genetic diversity and conducting health screening.

2) Presume that breeds are the healthiest they've ever been. Settle for compromised mobility, breathing and life expectancies of 6.3 years (median for British Bulldog, Kennel Club health Survey 2004, http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/down.../hsbulldog.pdf) and disregard scientific evidence showing that lack of genetic diversity causes increased risk of disease and therefore early death.

There's no benefit in settling for anything and disregarding scientific evidence. We owe it to our breeds, and there's no reason in my mind to bury heads in sand and hope for the best. Is it acceptable that 46% of surveyed specimens of one breed were unhealthy (see above link)?

Where does Dardar do that?

Here........

He may have been talking exclusively about the "bulldog" but even in that he is lumping ALL, as not being able to self whelp.

When there are lines of "Bulldogs " that are self whelping, if he took the time to look .